This episode was recorded at the 2025 Western Dairy Management Conference in Reno, Nevada. Dr. Kononoff begins with some renewable fuels history. Since the renewable fuels standard in 2007, corn production for ethanol has increased to around 50% of the crop going to ethanol production. With the subsequent increase in fuel has come an increase in distillers grains and the industry has learned how to use them to feed cattle better. Later, the government created additional policy for next-stage renewable fuels, which has spurred biodiesel production. Currently, just under 50% of the soybean crop goes to fuel production. Soybean meal availability has increased and costs have decreased over the past few years. Most of the soybean oil is solvent-extracted. (5:57)
This episode was recorded at the 2025 Western Dairy Management Conference in Reno, Nevada.
Dr. Kononoff begins with some renewable fuels history. Since the renewable fuels standard in 2007, corn production for ethanol has increased to around 50% of the crop going to ethanol production. With the subsequent increase in fuel has come an increase in distillers grains and the industry has learned how to use them to feed cattle better. Later, the government created additional policy for next-stage renewable fuels, which has spurred biodiesel production. Currently, just under 50% of the soybean crop goes to fuel production. Soybean meal availability has increased and costs have decreased over the past few years. Most of the soybean oil is solvent-extracted. (5:57)
Dr. Lock talks about increased acres of high-oleic soybeans in dairy-soybean crossover states. He summarizes some of the work his group has done on feeding high-oleic roasted whole soybeans as a replacement for soybean meal in the diet, citing the benefits of the oil in the diet as well as increased bypass protein. (15:41)
The panel discusses whether canola meal, which is fairly high in oleic acid, would show similar benefits to feeding whole roasted soybeans. They also talk about how tariffs may or may not impact canola meal and canola oil prices. (24:26)
Over time, the dairy industry has moved away from alfalfa as a protein source and toward soybean meal. The panel discusses the pros and cons of this change. (26:46)
Dr. Kononoff gives his perspective on just how much soybean meal can be fed in dairy cow diets. Nitrogen excretion is an important consideration. He reminds the audience that renewable fuels policy is the reason behind many of the feed ingredient changes we’ve observed in the past 15-20 years, and that policy can change very rapidly. He emphasizes the industry needs to remain nimble and prepared to adapt. The panel also touches on pricing of feed ingredients in different parts of the country and how distillers grains are currently used in dairy diets. (31:08)
Panelists share their take-home thoughts. (40:49)
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Scott (00:07):
Good evening everyone, and welcome to the Real Science Exchange, the pubcast where leading scientists and industry professionals meet over a few drinks to discuss the latest ideas and trends in animal nutrition. So in this episode, we're gonna be talking about how will soybean production and biodiesel, and how will it impact protein nutrition in dairy cattle. And that presentation was done by Dr. Paul Koff. But before I get to Paul, I'd like to introduce my, my co-host again Dr. Clay Zimmerman. Clay, what's in your glass tonight? I actually have some chocolate milk quality. Saw that here at the conference. I saw that. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Yeah. Good. I have, I've got, I've got no glass, so we'll have to do that later. Yep. Our color commentary for this episode is gonna be Dr. Adam Lock from Michigan State University. So welcome, glad to have you back. Why don't you tell the folks just a little bit about yourself in case they, they, they don't remember you from previous episodes, previous ones?
Dr. Adam Lock (01:03):
Yeah. Yeah. So Adam l Michigan State grew up on a dairy farm in England. Yeah. I'm a fatty acid guy or a fat guy, so we're, hopefully we're compliment each other here.
Scott (01:13):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Alright. I'm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (01:16):
Just a fat guy.
Dr. Adam Lock (01:18):
Well, I tell people I was called the fat guy, but it was before I even did a PhD, so. Yeah.
Scott (01:24):
And here we go.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (01:39):
So as you mentioned, I'm at the University of Nebraska. I've been there for just over 20 years. My position is an ex extension research role. And so I've done a lot of research just in applied nutrition and feeding of byproducts to dairy cattle. We focused more recently on studying energetics. That's also got me into the area of methane production and products that mitigate methane. And then in addition to that I guess I have an additional role as editor in chief of Journal of Dairy Science. You sure do. That time is winding down. My last term expires here December 31st.
Scott (02:19):
Oh, wow.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (02:20):
So I'm just at the end of that tour as
Scott (02:22):
Well. Do you know who's gonna take over for you? We're
Dr. Paul Kononoff (02:24):
Going through interviews right now. Is that right?
Scott (02:25):
Yeah. Okay. So we're
Dr. Paul Kononoff (02:26):
Really, really looking forward to the next person.
Scott (02:29):
Okay.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (02:29):
And we see where they're gonna take the journal. Yeah. It's a fun ride.
Scott (02:33):
Sure. Yeah. Good deal. Well, you've done a great job. We appreciate that. Oh, thank you. Absolutely.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (02:36):
Yes. So, yeah, a little back background on my talk. As I mentioned, I, I've done a lot of research act. I came at to the University of Nebraska 2004. And that was just about the time corn ethanol production was starting to increase. And and in 2007, the renewable fuel standard came in, and that really gave a boost to renewable fuels. First one outta the gate was was corn. And then that we can talk a little bit more in detail and on what came after that. But we've done a lot of research on distillers grains that came from corn ethanol and coming from the cornhusker state mm-hmm
Scott (03:45):
So I met you about 14 years ago though. Yeah. And I, and you gave a talk to Penn State Nutrition Conference, and I think it was about amino acids. Is that correct?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (03:54):
Yeah, I was, yeah.
Scott (03:55):
So, so you must have a background in amino acids. I
Dr. Paul Kononoff (03:58):
Not, not per se. I guess I spent a little bit of time working with Chuck Schwab at the University of New Hampshire. Okay. With Ryan Oray. Yeah. Yeah. Another chem person. So I soaked up as much as I could on amino acids Okay. When I was there. But I would say the reason why I, I got rolled into that whole conversation is because distillers grains and corn in general are low in lysine. Yeah. And so looking at diets that are high in distillers grains and seeing what can happen if you add additional lysine to it. Yeah. So, yeah, that's how I got into the
Scott (04:31):
Amino acid game. Okay. All right. It's all coming back to me now.
Scott (04:36):
It was a long time ago. So I'm curious then. So the title is How is it Going to Impact our Protein Production? Yeah. So what, what are some of the key elements related to that?
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Dr. Paul Kononoff (05:57):
This has been, I have to admit, it's been a, a fun learning experience. It was this fall when the program committee came to me and they said, Paul, can you talk about bio-based diesel? And I think it's because they knew I was doing research that was related to renewable fuels. And so I thought, oh boy, this is an area that I just haven't really explored and I'm not working on, but I better sharpen my pencil and do some reading. And what's really interesting is, is corn ethanol since about 2004, well, really since the renewable fuel standards came out, corn production the amount of corn that's gone to corn ethanol has dramatically increased to the point that a lot of people don't know this, but about 50% of the corn produced in the United States actually goes to fuel production.
Scott (06:47):
Is that right? I had no idea. So
Dr. Paul Kononoff (06:49):
That resulted in more fuel, but it's of course resulted in more of the byproduct distillers grains. And I know Adam's very interested in distillers grains and the fat that's in there and what happens to the dairy cow when you do that. But as we've continued to to learn about that, I think it's improved how improved we've, we've learned how to feed cattle better. But then several years after the standard came out, the federal government made additional policy for next stage renewable fuels. And in that, that was really what spurred bio-based diesel production. And so in the talk to in the talk today, what I did is I, is I spoke about actually two kinds of biodiesel, bio-based diesel that are out there. The first is is biomass based diesel and fame biodiesel.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (07:42):
And that's a, a traditional one. I'm not a, I'm not a chemical engineer, but the process of, of the first one, famed biodiesel, is different than the more recent one that's really increased in production. And that's renewable diesel. These fuels are a little different. Renewable diesel tends to be really, it's a better fuel better lubrication cap capacities. You don't have to blend it to the same extent as fame biodiesel. And so of course, as these policies have advanced, so too has the crush of soybean. And so the committee asked me to talk about, you know, what's happening with feed markets as as bio-based diesel has increased in production.
Scott (08:28):
So now as you've done your research, where are these diesels being used at? Where are they Yeah. Being used by consumers? Are we,
Dr. Paul Kononoff (08:37):
They're they're being used about everywhere diesel is used, is that right? It's being blended and used in in trucks. Okay. I think it's used in I think it's even used in boast. But basically wherever diesel is used, what's interesting is, is where it's produced as well. The, a lot of the crush capacity is in the locations where you grow soybeans. Yeah, sure. So in the Midwest, in Nebraska Illinois specifically, and that's where the oil is coming from. But the renewable diesel plants tend to be, they're always paired. They're owned I think ex almost exclusively. Not exclusively, but most of them are owned by oil companies. And those are located where those refineries are located. And the main reason is they need hydrogen to make this renewable diesel. And so those are located in places like Louisiana. I should mention, California has had also policies related to renewable diesel. There's oil companies there. And so there's a lot of this renewable diesel that's being produced. California, Louisiana those areas, the soy is still being crushed, obviously in the Midwest
Scott (09:53):
Primarily. Yeah. So you said that corn is about 50% of, of is going to fuel. Yeah. Do we know what percent soybeans?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (10:01):
Yeah, that's really interesting too. This policy has spurred all of this. And right now we're bumping, I think just under 50% of the soy is that
Scott (10:13):
Is actually going to, I had no idea fuel.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (10:15):
Wow. yeah, it actually I was told last week that I think last year we were over 50%, and now we're around 45%. So if you think about it, half of our corn, right, almost half of our soy is being used for fuel
Scott (10:30):
Production. That's incredible.
Clay (10:32):
Is some of this used for, for airline fuel?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (10:34):
So that's the other thing that I talk about is sustainable aviation fuel, which I guess the Department of Energy has very recently changed the name of Sustainable Aviation Fuel, and you'll now hear it called synthetic aviation Fuel. Okay. But yes. That, that is part of I guess this whole idea of producing these biofuels and it's, it's related to renewable diesel in some degree, in some processes, but you're absolutely right. And so that has been the more recent advance. The previous administration had really set targets to increase we abbreviated SAF so you don't have to worry about the, the first word, but the previous administration had really focused on increasing SAF production. Right now, only about 1% of the total aviation fuel in the United States is SAF fuel. So they probably have room to grow depending on which way you look at it, but they're, they're a small component of that.
Clay (11:37):
Is there a lot of, is there a lot of this being used in tractors on the farm?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (11:42):
So, I, that's a good question. I assume, you know, if they're purchasing diesel Yeah. It's being used on the farm as well. Yeah.
Scott (11:49):
Yeah. And is it labeled like gasoline, you know? No,
Dr. Paul Kononoff (11:53):
I don't believe it is.
Scott (11:53):
Okay. So the thermo dynamics may be the same, don't, yeah,
Dr. Paul Kononoff (11:56):
That's right. In the case of renewable diesel.
Scott (11:58):
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Adam Lock (12:00):
So, so that lower crushing of soybeans this last couple years, is that related maybe to shifting which type of soybeans are being grown in the Midwest as well?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (12:09):
I think most of that is policy driven. Okay. so what happened was again, the previous administration set up some incentives for the oil companies to build capacity to produce renewable diesel. And that was a big shot in the arm, because what happened was these oil companies saw capital that was available, and they had some old petroleum plants that were ready to be decommissioned, but there were funds available that they could reinvest and retrofit into renewable diesel. So we saw tremendous growth with the availability of those funds. And then it's, it's backed off a little bit. And I think the, the profitability of, of the companies, it's very shaky. What's gonna, what's happened in the last six months and what's gonna happen for the next six months. But I think some of the policy uncertainty has, has caused people to hold back on some additional production and investment.
Scott (13:09):
So is it fair to assume then that you know, the need for this oil, for the, for the biodiesel has, has created more acres of soybeans? Yeah. And, and now we've got more protein available, hence the impact on the dairy industry?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (13:24):
Yeah, that's exactly what, what's happened. I mean, the continued increase in soy production, not only in the United States, but Brazil in Argentina. So you've had increased soy production increased crush, and that's resulted in increased availability of soybean meal. Mm-Hmm
Scott (13:55):
Yeah. So
Clay (13:55):
What, what impact has it had on soybean meal prices?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (13:59):
It's hard to say exactly. I'm not an economist. But if you just look at the trends over the last year, maybe two years, you've seen reducing costs in soybean meal. Yeah. And so I think it's, it's fair to say that that's had a reducing drive, drive down on soybean meal prices. And on the board right now, you know, we're less than $300 a ton. Right. Yeah.
Dr. Adam Lock (14:24):
So most of the crushes it solvent extracted then, is it?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (14:29):
Yes, exactly. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now I, I'm sure you know, some of these expeller they've, you know, some of the expeller have, you know, they also sell the oil. But I think a lot of the growth has actually come from a solvent extraction mm-hmm
Scott (15:30):
So I'm kind of, Adam, I know you've got an interest in Ohio Lake soybeans and trying to do some mental gymnastics here. To think of w would, will this impact that at all? Or any thoughts related to that?
Dr. Adam Lock (15:41):
Yeah, it is interesting. That's kind of why I asked about the, the less crush now. But certainly in some of the dairy soybean areas that, you know, cross over New York, Michigan stuff mm-hmm
Scott (16:22):
Right.
Dr. Adam Lock (16:23):
And, and that could go, could be biodiesel, it could also be the human nutrition market. You know, it's, there's about 80% oleic. It's a very unique mm-hmm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (17:20):
So Adam I really enjoyed your, your presentation. And I think you see some really neat responses with the high oleic soybeans mm-hmm
Dr. Adam Lock (17:55):
Yeah. So we've done seven or eight studies now. Some have been published. I think commercially where it will be going in is I roasted ground high oleic soybeans perform much better than a raw bean, right? Mm-Hmm
Dr. Adam Lock (19:00):
So, you know, in terms of the other aspects of the diet, you know, with the raw, there was some concerns about some anti nutritional factors and different things. And even at 16% we didn't quite see that, but mm-hmm
Dr. Adam Lock (19:51):
I think, you know, in, in those dairy soy regions on the soybean market. And a colleague of mine, Dr. Caputo, in our economics group, she's actually been doing interviews with nutritionists, dairy producers and soybean growers. And some of learning about some of those dynamics is interesting. And there's a potential, there's a win-win. You know, if a dairy producer can improve cost of production, more milk production, and then the soybean grower maybe has a, a premium mm-hmm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (20:29):
So I know some of these anti nutritional factors, or at least they've been thought to reduce protein digestibility in any of your studies, have you evaluated Protein digest?
Dr. Adam Lock (20:38):
We haven't. Done protein digestibility. We only did the one study with raw mm-hmm
Clay (21:17):
You have urea in the raw soybean
Dr. Adam Lock (21:19):
Diet? No, we pulled it, I think we didn't have it in any of the diets. 'cause Yeah. The, you know, the interesting, I think when you talk to other people about those is some people still have quite a memory of feeding conventional whole beans. Right. And the negatives around that. Mm-Hmm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (21:56):
And so the other question I had is what parts of the country either are doing this or looking at doing it or where there's opportunities? I know when I started in dairy nutrition in this country over 20 years ago, I always think about, you know, them roasting beans in rural Pennsylvania mm-hmm
Dr. Adam Lock (22:22):
I, I think it comes, the immediate interests right now are in those markets where there's a vibrant dairy industry and soybeans being grown mm-hmm
Dr. Adam Lock (23:05):
But coming back to the crushing side, I think this higher oleic oil's very unique, right? Mm-Hmm
Clay (23:41):
So you're adding straight oil mm-hmm
Dr. Adam Lock (23:43):
To the diets.
Clay (23:43):
Yeah. Wow.
Dr. Adam Lock (23:44):
So I think we know enough about milk, milk, fat, depression, risk factors now that we can Yeah, we can do that. But ask me in a couple months and I'll be like, no,
Clay (24:00):
So Paul, from a, from a biodiesel standpoint, does a fatty acid profile of the beans make any difference there
Dr. Paul Kononoff (24:08):
Or not? That's a good question. I, I can't honestly answer that. I'm sure there's oleic soybeans that are going into that production, but I'm, I'm not I don't know enough about that production process to know if it changes. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Adam Lock (24:26):
It's interesting.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (24:26):
I have a question for Adam. I, canola meal is high in oleic acid, so it, and I know that there's high, you know, there's higher fat canola meal mm-hmm
Clay (24:42):
And this is coming from a Yeah.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (24:44):
Canadian Yeah. Where we call it canola meals.
Dr. Adam Lock (24:51):
It's interesting. I mean, it's still not as high as the beans mm-hmm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (25:05):
There is some higher fat, and I don't know if it's coming from an expeller process. Okay. But there is some higher fat canola meal.
Dr. Adam Lock (25:11):
Yeah. I mean, I think it would have to be at a reasonable level to have an impact, like mm-hmm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (26:03):
I think in the short term with the geopolitical climate right now, there could actually be more canola oil available or to be used for feed Oh. Based on the tariffs that are being placed on Canadian canola meal or canola oil from some parts of the world. Yeah.
Dr. Adam Lock (26:21):
I think there'd be an opportunity mm-hmm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (26:46):
I have a question for Clay. In my talk, one of the things I I did is, is pull out a paper by Bill Weiss that was published in Applied Animal Science. And it was a really neat kind of almost like a case study of how you formulate diets to contain soy products. One of the things that he says in the introduction is just how over time we've relied more on soy to provide protein and less on alfalfa. Yep. You know, basically we're feeding more corn silage, growing more corn, we don't need alfalfa, and we've got all this soybean that's available. So I know at least for a portion of your career, you saw this change. Right. And I'm kind of curious, you know, are we, are we better for it the way we are now? Or, you know, when you think back to those days when you fed a lot of alfalfa, how are things different?
Clay (27:45):
Ah, that's a great question. So I'm, I'm gonna give a quote that Lou Armano gave
Dr. Adam Lock (28:28):
But I don't disagree. But a nutrient come the, where the nutrient comes from can make a big difference. Yes. And that example I showed today, I could yes. Formulate the same 18 carbons and get different responses. So I asked Bill that same question recently 'cause I got criticized about a paper about, I'm like, well, what's more important, the ingredient or the nutrient? And he said, yes. Right. You know, kind of Right. I think they're both important, right.
Clay (28:53):
So,
Dr. Adam Lock (28:54):
Yeah.
Clay (28:54):
But I think from a forge standpoint, moving back to the northeast 25 years ago Yeah. 'cause I, I had been so used to using alfalfa and diets, it was pretty rare. And a lot of, lot of diets that I would, that I ended up, you know, formulating mm-hmm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (29:54):
So if, if I like personally, if I just had to push back on that a little bit and it's, it's, it's mainly just because I'm a bit of, my wife has accused me of being an old soul. I think about, you know, these alfalfa diets. I thought they must have been doing something right. 'cause They did it for a long time. Yep. And I don't think you can escape the, I'm not an agronomist, but to escape the value that alfalfa puts back onto the fields. And I I definitely think, you know, nutritionists, I understand why you would look at a feed and make a decision based on the chemical composition, but I also think it's important to look at the farm as a whole. Right. Right. And think about, you know, what's best for that farm. And so I, I do think alfalfa, there's, there's a lot of good things that, that come through. There
Clay (30:40):
Are, yeah, of course soybeans are a nitrogen thing
Dr. Paul Kononoff (30:44):
Too. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. If they choose
Dr. Adam Lock (30:45):
To do that. And we've had some of those discussions about, you know, if a producer's doing alfalfa now, you know, would maybe the high oleic beans make more of a better option? Mm-Hmm
Clay (30:57):
Dr. Adam Lock (30:58):
Dr. Paul Kononoff (31:04):
Dr. Adam Lock (31:04):
So can we put more soybean meal in a diet?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (31:08):
So that's it's what I shared. And, and we looked at that. So I, when I saw bill's paper, I thought, oh, this is perfect. I can share it with the group. And what he did is, in his formulations, all he did is removed alfalfa. So that's probably why I came to this question. But I had a graduate student that was doing his written comps. And so I was able to exploit his efforts and I showed him bill's diets, and I said, I would actually like to see you do a formulation and talk about that diet by putting more soy into that diet. And so he did, he did do that. And I'm just trying to think of what one of the things he did, of course, not only soybean meal highly available soy halls are also available.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (31:55):
So he did come in with, with soy halls. He also did replace I think primarily by adding soybean meal. I did, I think he also added replaced cotton seed. And I think, I'm trying to remember a couple other protein ingredients. I think there was urea in there and he replaced that, but he, he was able to increase it a little bit, and he was able to reduce costs. And I was actually surprised, you know, when we think about soy we always think of it maybe being a little lower in methionine than we would like, but at least on the formulation, he was able to maintain methionine. So I think maybe there is some opportunity to increase soybean meal. A lot of it may indeed come at the expense of alfalfa though.
Dr. Adam Lock (32:46):
And that's staying within a 17, 18% CRE protein limit. That's right. Yeah.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (32:50):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The next question is, if it's free, how much of this stuff can you actually feed? Yeah. But then there's knock on effects for nitrogen excretion. It's obviously not a direction we want to go.
Clay (33:01):
Well, it, it, it should, it should increase the the industry for reducing room degradability of the
Dr. Paul Kononoff (33:10):
Soy. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Clay (33:11):
We'll see more high bypass soy being used. There's a lot used now, but I think that will increase even more. Mm-Hmm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (33:20):
What about alfalfa and Michigan? What are you seeing producers doing there? More of it, less of it? Are they about
Dr. Adam Lock (33:26):
Oh, I, I'm, I'm not sure I'm the right person to answer that, but we've had some of those discussions ourselves with the new dairy being built and more cows and land base is, you know mm-hmm
Dr. Paul Kononoff (33:59):
Mm-Hmm
Scott (35:20):
Yeah. You know, while we're talking about pricing, I'm kind of curious, one thing we haven't talked about is how competitively priced is that oil as compared to regular diesel? Did you, did you cover uncover that in your research?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (35:34):
So I think right. At least right now, the production of it, it's, it, it has been profitable. Again, it's all based on based on these policies. But right now, these oil companies have made money producing renewable diesel, sustainable aviation fuel. Yeah. The other thing, you know, actually one of the things that I did,
Clay (35:56):
And it's not subsidized at all, like
Dr. Paul Kononoff (35:58):
Right. Well, there's tax incentives. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing I did talk about in my talk is just how, you know, these prices, you talk about price competition, but how do these prices of soybean meal, how do they compare to other feeds? And so using sesame, I ran a couple simulations. I actually did one for what I call the Midwest, but it was actually mostly Wisconsin prices. I did Idaho and California. And I just looked at, you know, given these forces in the market, what's happening with cost competitiveness and and certainly in the Midwest it made a lot of sense to feed soybean meal. Soybean meal was considered a buy mm-hmm
Clay (37:34):
So I am curious, you started off at the beginning talking, you know, talking about the ethanol industry and, and corn. What, what's happening with the, with the feeding of distillers grains and dairy? Is it it's been is usage down from what it was or?
Dr. Paul Kononoff (37:54):
I I don't think usage is down. I think people have figured out how to feed it. We've figured out how to feed too much of it.
Dr. Adam Lock (38:56):
I think the key there was getting more consistent product. Right. You know, on in terms of fat content.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (39:02):
Yeah. That yeah. You did some neat research in that area. That's, that's exactly what we saw. You know, early on it was 12% fat, and then it was bumping between eight and 12, and it was showing up at the dairy Yeah. And it was causing milk fat depression. Yep. And then the industry figured out other places to go to with that oil, some of it actually renewable diesel. Right. And and so they're consistently much less than that in fat. And I think you're right, it's a safer feed to feed Yeah. As well. You're
Dr. Adam Lock (39:37):
Right. Yeah. I was never too, I think they could have always handled the higher, you know, the 10, 12. Yeah. But if you were formulating the diet for it, that not if it, if, if you thought it had 6% Yeah. But it had 12 that, that, that was the problem. Right. Yeah. I'm interested. You can't, hadn't really, with more soybean meal available, there's more soy hopes available and I think they're a great opportunity in the diet as well.
Scott (39:58):
That's a good idea. Yeah.
Dr. Paul Kononoff (40:00):
Yeah. It's a very robust feed ingredient. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott (40:04):
Yeah. Good stuff. So as we get ready to kinda wrap things up here, kinda like you guys, just to kind of formulate your thoughts and come up with a couple, you know, key takeaways that you'd like to share with the audience. And I'm gonna toss it down to my trustee, co-host down there, Dr. Clay Zimmerman.
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Clay (40:49):
It's a very interesting talk, interesting topic. I've been hearing this for a few years, right? About how soybean meal production's going to increase. And it has been it'll be interesting to see long term what, you know, what happens to the price of soybean meal mm-hmm
Scott (41:15):
Yeah,
Clay (41:16):
It, it will create some opportunities, for sure. Yeah.
Scott (41:20):
Adam, any thoughts? Yeah,
Dr. Adam Lock (41:21):
It's interesting. As, you know, this is an area I haven't really think too much about on that side, but I think it shows that maybe we need, do need to do more work in better understanding how to get certain protein sources in the diet or how it, how to include them at higher levels in the diet. And I think the dairy industry's gonna be somewhat unique in areas that they can, with different types of soybeans that are available. Maybe the opportunity to feed more of the soybean oil in, in the diet. But it's a, I think an interesting time right now for a lot of those things. Yeah. So it's exciting.
Scott (42:00):
Yeah, for sure. Paul, we'll give you the final word. Oh,
Dr. Paul Kononoff (42:03):
I would just say, you know, when I started at Nebraska, I remember Terry Stein was on faculty and, and he just told me, you know, Paul, early in my career, energy was the most expensive ingredient. And over the last, you know, 20 years, that's changed. Or sorry protein was the most expensive ingredient. And that's changed with the, the increased availability of distillers grains and of course soybean meal. Now protein's actually pretty cheap. And the cool thing is, you know, in our area of nutrition, and you look at that cow, she's quite adaptable. And you can come with some pretty creative formulations to take advantage of some of these market conditions. And it's when, you know, one of the things I really found interesting about Adam's presentation earlier, is just all these different formulations they can come up with. And many of these can be an economic gain and the cows continue, can continue to produce food for nourishing humankind. And so to me, it's a fun thing to see nutritionists creatively look at how to use these feed ingredients. Yeah.
Scott (43:16):
Yep. Cool. Well, listen, I wanna thank you guys for joining us here. It's been a interesting conversation. Thank you, Adam. Looking forward to your next podcast on High Lake soybeans to our loyal audience, thank you for coming along. Once again, I hope you learned something. Hope you had some fun. We hope to see you next time here at Real Science Exchange, where it's always happy hour and you're always among friends.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
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