Guests: Dr. Tom Rathje and Dr. Jason Schneider both with DNA Genetics Today’s episode dives into the genetic advancements made in the swine industry and the impact those advancements have on all other parameters. Joining us to help dig into this genetics topic are Dr. Tom Rathje and Dr. Jason Schneider, both with DNA Genetics.
Guests: Dr. Tom Rathje and Dr. Jason Schneider both with DNA Genetics
Today’s episode dives into the genetic advancements made in the swine industry and the impact those advancements have on all other parameters. Joining us to help dig into this genetics topic are Dr. Tom Rathje and Dr. Jason Schneider, both with DNA Genetics.
Dr. Rathje spoke about how genetic change has accelerated in recent years due to the adoption of genomic selection, which improves the accuracy with which we identify a superior animal. You use that information to decide which animals are retained to reproduce. (8:23)
Dr. Schneider mentioned that with genetic makeup changing, the nutritional needs for swine are changing as well. He said amino acids are ratioed off of lysine, and the assumption is if lysine levels are correct, you’re in the ballpark. But different breeds have different feed intakes and performances in lean gain, so changes to nutrition are coming. (17:38)
Dr. Rathje discussed that labor is always discussed as a big challenge in the swine industry, so we have to produce an animal that is more self-sufficient and able to produce and wean pigs on her own. The 14, 14, 21 program was designed to identify sows that have the ability to wean 14, 14lb pigs for 21 days on her own. (26:25).
Dr. Schneider said the largest sustainability area we can increase is reducing mortality. If we can increase survivability through our genetic selection index, it’s a huge saver in less inputs to create the same amount of product. (46:56)
Dr. Rathje wrapped up by saying research is taking place that looks at the activation of a pig's immune system and looks at the genes that might turn on. Now we have to figure out how to implement the knowledge. (51:40)
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Scott Sorrell (00:00:07):
Good evening everyone. And welcome to the real science exchange. The podcast is where leading scientists and industry professionals meet over a few drinks to discuss the latest ideas and trends in animal nutrition. We've seen many advancements in genetics, uh, from both the animals we feed and the crops for growing tonight. We're gonna take a deep dive into swine genetics and the role that nutrition plays in helping maximize those benefits. Hi, I'm Scott. Sorell is one of your hosts here at the real science exchange as a global population surges. And we look to do more with less while improving, uh, industry system ability. Genetic selection is playing a pivotal role. Tonight. We start with a look at the genetic advancements taking place in the swine industry and the impact those advancements have on all other parameters to help us dig into those topics who welcome, uh, Dr. Tom Rathje from DNA genetics, Tom, welcome to the exchange.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:01:00):
Thank you.
Scott Sorrell (00:01:01):
As most of our audience knows, um, our discussions take place here in a virtual pub. So with that theme in mind, what are you drinking tonight, Tom?
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:01:09):
You know, I've got a diet Pepsi tonight, Scott, but I wish I had a mixer with me right now. So I may have to follow up on that.
Scott Sorrell (00:01:17):
Well, I know that, uh, Steph ordered the mixers. Unfortunately, it hasn't arrived yet, but we both promise. Yeah. The mail is not what it used to be. I'm not sure what's going on with that. That's right. That's right. So, um, I noticed also that you've brought a guest with you. Would you mind introducing him?
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:01:33):
Yeah, I'd love to, um, uh, Dr. Jason Schneider is with us today. He's, uh, a nutritionist on our team at D genetics. Uh, maybe Jason, let you say a few more words about, about yourself. You'll do a better job than I can.
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:01:48):
Yeah. Thanks, Tom. Uh, yeah, my name's Jason. Um, I'm a nutritionist by training on the DNA technical service team. I've been with DNA for, uh, about four years here now. Um, and then some of my backgrounds, uh, really as growing up was on a typical diversified crop-livestock farm in Eastern Iowa. Um, and just like the nutritional area, uh, of raising pigs and, and cows and, and how all that interacted with crops, um, to, and then from there, uh, I went to finish my undergraduate Iowa state university. Uh, my master's at Oklahoma state university and then finished up with my Ph.D. at, uh, uh, Kansas state university. So, uh, spent some time within the, within the feed company, nutrition world, uh, as well as in with the, a production company in Northeast Iowa. And then, uh, moved on to DNA here where I work with, uh, a lot of our, our customers in the field, in us and Canada,
Scott Sorrell (00:02:56):
Super well. It's a pleasure meeting you, Jason, and, uh, welcome to the exchange and, uh, and in keeping with our theme. So what are you drinking tonight?
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:03:05):
I have a Pauler beer, so, oh, nice. Usually, I'm kind of a Bush light guy, 90% of the time, but I figure this could be something special. So
Scott Sorrell (00:03:15):
Splurging good. Appreciate it. Uh, tonight my co-host is, uh, Dr. Zach Loman. Zach's, uh, baches monogastric technical service lead, and he's joined us here before, um, here at the exchange a few times. So welcome back, uh, Zach, and tell us what you're drinking and any story that goes with, along with that,
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:03:35):
I'm drinking fruit smash. They're, uh, kind of a light seltzer. It was 70 here in North Carolina last week. And, uh, so we got something to drink on the front porch, but it was 25 this morning. So not quite the right weather for it.
Scott Sorrell (00:03:47):
Yeah. Yep. I understand. Well, I'm going with an old standby. I've got a Woodfords reserve tonight. I've kind of gotten into a bit of, a rut been traveling a lot. Haven't had a chance to get to the state store, but we'll remedy it out here coming up this weekend, so maybe I'll have something different next week. So anyway, with that, let's get started. Um, Tom, can you give us, um, uh, a brief rundown of the traits that have advanced the most within the swine industry and why are those characteristics important?
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:04:17):
Yeah, so, um, in the the the, um, the webinar that we did last week, I focused in, on kind of two separate areas in, in pig genetics. One was the reproductive side, and then of course the advancements we made in the terminal pig. And I think if we kind of think of those two buckets, the, I guess, some things that, um, I guess, uh, come to the forefront for me, uh, if, if we look at our so lines, uh, we've made a tremendous amount of progress in the industry for pigs, we, and historically that was done, uh, largely by selection for total born, uh, improving litter size. But, certainly what the industry has recognized is that we can't blindly just chase litter size. We end up with some, some consequences to that, uh, things like, uh, smaller birth, weight, pigs, uh, lower survivability.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:05:11):
So your return on, you know, improving litter size from selecting that way, I think, uh, diminishes over time, certainly as in, in our program. So, uh, we took a hard look at that and, and our focus now more on weaning the pigs, we already are producing by putting more emphasis on pig quality, uh, reducing pre-weaning mortality, and, uh, focusing on sows that have the ability to, to wean and raise a, a very heavy, heavy pig at weaning. So, uh, we've shifted our focus and, and, you know, are, have made some tremendous strides in those areas. Um, uh, particularly on, um, on birth white in the last three or four years, we've, uh, been able to have a significant impact there. Our, our average birth weights are up nearly two-tenths of a pound, uh, which is very significant when you're considering, um, you know, a 2.9 or 2.8-pound pig.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:06:05):
That's a big, that's a big improvement. So we're nearly, nearly at three pounds now and, and a little bit over. So that has a huge impact on survivability. Um, but it's changing the sow, obviously. So now we have sows today and, and we've got some commercial data that would show this, that, uh, even over the last six years, um, they're weaning one and a half more pigs and, and producing another 36 pounds of weaning weight in a given year. So, you know, the question becomes, how do, how do we extract that genetic potential from both the management and nutrition standpoint, um, which, you know, is a, is a constant, um, uh, a constant challenge, I think for, for the industry. Um, if we think about the terminal side then, uh, obviously, uh, most terminal sidelines have been focused on efficiently in growth, and ours is no different.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:07:02):
So, uh, tremendous progress over the years in, in feed efficiency, we're, we're moving at about, uh, four units a year in feed efficiency growth is of course improving. Uh, so, um, all, all of those things combined have certainly changed and nutritional needs of the pig. And, uh, uh, I would say also, I would add in that the sow has a strong contribution to that as well. So half of the index in our Sal lines is based on terminal traits of, of lean efficiency. Uh, so we're seeing all these changes. And I think, uh, all of that combined is, is, um, certainly, uh, uh, brings in the expertise or the need for expertise from nutrition and management and, and, you know, how do we extract that full potential?
Scott Sorrell (00:07:53):
So you mentioned change, and during your webinar, you talked a lot about the fact that that change is accelerated here in recent years. Can you kind of talk through what some of those factors are?
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:08:04):
Yeah, so the, probably the biggest one is, um, the adoption of genomic selection, uh, that is pretty much in widespread use today. So over the last decade, uh, that's become, uh, pretty mainstream for the industry. And what genomic selection does is improves the accuracy with which we identify superior animals. So, um, genetic advancement, in livestock is really about deciding who gets to reproduce. And so when you make those decisions on which animals are retained, you want that decision to be right. And we try and make the right decision based on collecting performance data on the pigs and, and then predicting their breeding value before genomics. We would, um, of course, use information from relatives of animals. So your brothers tell you something about a pig and, uh, your sisters, your mother, your father, your, your cousins, all of that information can be brought to bear on improving the accuracy of knowing what your performance level is from a genetic standpoint.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:09:08):
What genomics does for us is that instead of assuming, kind of an average relationship, let's say with your of 50% genomics allows us to very accurately estimate the true relationship on the DNA level and that increased accuracy, um, will make our decisions that much better when we're deciding to replacements. So our speed of progress has increased anywhere from 25 to over 40%, uh, compared to what it was a decade ago. And I think the implication of that for the industry is that we need to be ready to adapt and change to that, that animal faster than we ever had been before. And it's not unique to pigs. I think it's true in, in poultry, it's true in the dairy industry, uh, all of the different species now, uh, things are moving fast. So, you know, um, we're, we're gonna have to update nutritional specs, other things on, on a faster rate as well because of that.
Scott Sorrell (00:10:11):
So I think that's a great segue. Yeah. We question Jason. Yes. Go ahead, Jason. Yeah,
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:10:15):
I mean, we, we start looking at customer closeout data and you see that over the years, uh, as a, from a terminal side, just what these animals will just flat out gain when they're healthy and in a good environment, it's, it's quite phenomenal just what the capabilities that they have and just kind of wonder what the future's gonna hold as we get to improve and, and bring up those, you know, kind of shift that bell curve to the right even more and, and bring up, maybe some of those tailenders that, uh, would've been a coal pig five years ago, and now they're gonna be, you know, a full value pig. So I think it, the future looks up, um, we look at genomics and see what we can bring to the producers in the field.
Scott Sorrell (00:11:01):
So what kind of adaptations have you had to make, uh, due to this rapidly changing pig, rapidly evolving pig, if you will, Jason, from a nutritional perspective.
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:11:11):
Yeah. Like, you know, Tom said, we're, we're, the genetic change is, is speeding up. So it used to be where, you know, we might look at LIC requirements once every five years or so, and, and make a change there where we're starting to think that we need to do that too, and look at that maybe every two to three years, uh, and make some updates to that. They might be minor updates as well, but, you know, we're, we're seeing a, a, a higher improvement lean gain while still having, uh, high growth rates. So, you know, that changes just what these pigs need from a, from a licensing standpoint for optimal performance. Uh, you know, for best cost can be a little bit different in the field. And that's kind of what I deal with on a producer, by the producer in, in different region standpoint, because, you know, the best gain doesn't always mean the best return or best cost. So we kind of have to, uh, you know, play that right. Or, or you gotta, you know, take that with a grain of salt, but as these pigs are growing faster, it's, we're just trying to keep up on, you know, what do they need, so we're not lagging.
Scott Sorrell (00:12:22):
And so you mentioned lysine, what about other, sorry, Zach, what about other amino acids? Um, you know, as these pigs become, grow faster, more efficiently, are we finding other amino acids that are now limited
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:12:34):
Well, I think as these diets become more purified and more crystal amino acids are available in the marketplace and more affordable. Uh, the big question is, is, you know, what's the next limiting amino acid, uh, you know, we're able to, in some places put, uh, crystalline BA in some diets, um, and that's, you know, you're, you're at four or five crystalline amino acids in some of these diets and, and you might have a, a pretty purified diet at that point. And so right now, we're kind of looking at branch chains, amino acids, and how that affects, uh, intake and growth rate, especially with different ingredients. And that's the big caveat is there are the effects of ingredients and how you value those in the pigs can make a difference in, in how you formulate diets. And then how you set your recommendations,
Scott Sorrell (00:13:29):
Zach, anything to add there from a, from a poultry perspective. And I know you guys, uh, probably, uh, believe you're leading the way in, uh, Immuno acid nutrition.
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:13:38):
Yeah, I was gonna say we, uh, actually I was adding to that. I mean, granted now I'm not, uh, out in the industry as much, so I don't get to, uh, do all the fun experiments, but at Bache, we're a cooling company. So we've been doing quite a bit of research on coaling and looking at how, uh, requirements of chain changed within broilers. Uh, hopefully, we'll get to pigs, but, uh, and not only in the animals, but we've been doing a lot of work with the feedstuff and seeing how the actual crops have changed, because they're under the same selections, bigger, faster, growing more production. And we saw a, a change in the amount of cooling that's actually in the crops.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:14:13):
I'm I'm curious. Can I ask a question? Is that okay? Uh,
Scott Sorrell (00:14:15):
Absolutely.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:14:17):
I'm really curious as to how crops have changed over time. Are there any general statements you can make about energy, protein content, those types of things, especially, especially corn,
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:14:27):
I would say. So, we did, um, uh, we looked at four different things. We looked at DDGs wheat, um, soybean and corn, and we mainly focused on the choline on it. Um, but yeah, we saw, uh, pretty significant reductions in the amount of coal versus what the NRC from the last, I think the last Poulin was 1994. So, uh, it's, uh, significantly lower than, than a lot of people were, uh, kind of the numbers that people were using,
Scott Sorrell (00:14:57):
You know, Zach to kind of build on that. Not only have the crops changed, but the animals changed and the requirements for those nutrients have changed. And I know that you've recently, um, completed some research at, was it Auburn university? Yeah. Can you touch on that a bit? Are we allowed to do that?
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:15:13):
Uh, I don't know, but we'll, uh, we'll see. And if we aren't, we'll cut it out.
Speaker 5 (00:15:18):
Um,
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:15:20):
Um, but yeah, no, we saw, um, well, we did a coaling titration trial in broilers. Um, and as you know, there's probably similar in pigs. There are two main broiler companies. There's the co genetics and there's agen and the current one was with agen birds, but I would assume a similar response, but we saw, um, uh, I mean, we started from no added choline up to, um, 2000 PPM added. And, um, we saw a linear increase in, uh, breast meat and a linear decrease in feed conversion. It was, uh, almost a perfect line. So, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's some, some different requirements for these birds. We're, uh, hoping to do a couple more too, uh, look at some different aspects and kind of push the range and see where we need to be at. But
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:16:08):
Yeah, it's interesting because one thing we talked about in, and I think the crop has changed is when you look at soybeans and we know the percent of oil and protein in those beans before the process differs from Minnesota to Dakotas and Iowa, uh, just by their growing areas, in growing regions and degree days that, uh, I think we're probably leaving some money on the table, but not looking at soybean meal by the plant. Um, instead of just kind of considering it to be one protein, one amino acid level.
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:16:46):
Also, it was interesting. So the wheat was probably the least different. It had the least change in it. And if you think about it, it's not quite as selected, and there are not as many GMOs and different variations of it compared to the corn and soybeans, which had the largest D discrepancy in cooling,
Scott Sorrell (00:17:02):
You know, it makes you wonder, um, you know, with, with Tom talking about the genetics rapidly changing and, and these animals are we gonna have to take a look at all the nutrients that we're giving them and maximizing it for, for the current genetic makeup of those animals? Just kind of curious, so no thoughts on that at
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:17:20):
Some point. Yes. Yeah. Somehow
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:17:22):
That's where we
Scott Sorrell (00:17:22):
Edit the prize.
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:17:24):
Yeah, yeah. At least in the swine. I, I think, you know, we, we talk about another amino acid, but we always ratio those off to lycine. So we have an assumption that, uh, if our lycine levels are correct, then if we ratio the other amino acids, then we're, we're really in the ballpark, um, whether that's right or wrong because we know different breeds and different genetics have different feed intakes and different performance in, in different lean gain. Um, there's just so much variation or much more variation in the swine side than what you'd see in the poultry from producer to producer to probably be more defined. But I think that day could probably come as, especially as these companies get more integrated with packing and get more information back.
Scott Sorrell (00:18:18):
I was even thinking about minerals, you know, when's the last time we've taken a look at mineral requirements in these animals. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if you guys have an idea of that or not. I know that the poultry people are looking to the NRC here soon, and I'm sure they'll address it there. Not sure about the swine folks
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:18:35):
We're way behind. So a lot of the vitamin-mineral, uh, requirements from swine, you know, NRC goes back decades. So when you look at that from a requirement standpoint, um, I think there's still a lot of work to do, but just kind of it it's generating the funds and, and, and things to do at that, that level. Um, the private industry probably is, is not a great place to look at that, but it might have to be done at a university, uh, uh, level to get to the bottom of that. And, um, you know, just finding the people, uh, want to study that for five years or so, it can be a little bit difficult, but, you know, we go back and forth from, uh, sulfur or integr, uh, mineral to an organic mineral in what's best to use, especially in some of our high-value animals, like our, our guilt developer animals, um, that are gonna be the base for your, your so herd. And even in, within the so herd, you know, we, we think that we could, we could use a, a, a higher value organic mineral at, at, at levels. Uh, I don't think they need to be formulated to the same levels that we have are inorganics, but, uh, we know they're, uh, much more absorbed, uh, than your inorganic. And, um, but we need to have more information once they're in the body, how, how they're interacting and, and what they're doing,
Scott Sorrell (00:19:59):
You know, if we could kind of maybe switch gears just a little bit, um, B sponsored a, um, symposia on epigenetics in dairy cattle. And I'm curious, Tom, um, do you consider that? I, I, I'm gonna back up just a little bit. I, I, there was a presentation there done by, uh, Dr. Chad deco from Penn state university, and he had a picture of the world-record-holding, um, a dairy cow from this, uh, past couple years. And from a genomic perspective, this animal was below average. And, the thinking is right, there was some epigenetics at play here. And so just kind of curious about your comments, uh, relative to epigenetics and the role, it plays in your operation.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:20:43):
So that's a really interesting question. And I have a couple of examples I'd like to throw out there where we would see an effect, I think like that, and it it's a true mystery, uh, for us. So when you're, let me back up a little bit. So if you're making genetic improvement, you're selecting the additive genetic variation. So what genes that animal has and how they contribute to its performance when at least the definition I would use of epigenetics is you're, you're perhaps, and maybe a cow model is easier. You're saying, well, if, depending on how I feed this beef cow, I'm gonna impact her calf. That's now a replacement in my herd. So you're probably modifying the genetic expression through some kind of environment, a mental factor. Um, we, you know, by definition, we can't take account of that, uh, in a breeding program.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:21:35):
Now I may be proven wrong about that, and maybe we need to in some way, shape or form, but, uh, certainly it's, it's not something you can select for, but it's something you need to understand, cuz perhaps that could result in recommendations for producers and so on. Um, Jason mentioned guilt development. So how do we properly develop this guilt to set up them and their offspring for future success? So that's where I think it can come into play, but within our selection program, we have examples of, uh, for example, D bores, uh, that, that at 22 weeks of age have come off tests at nearly 380 pounds. So that pig, if you do the math on that, I I'm doing it in my head, but that pig would've grown over three pounds a day since birth, how does that happen? You know, how, how, I mean, normally that's a high ranking animal, but it may not be, so how do you get those outliers and what was different for that pig compared to others?
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:22:38):
And I think that's where that epigenetic question could come in is that, um, you see these animals with really great performance that are just outside the norm. Um, you know, genetically you're, you're gonna identify those, but then there's some other factor there, there, there is some other factor that's, that's maybe not an inherited inherited component and we need to understand that better. So I, I don't have a deep answer for you on that question, but I, I, I do think we see it and, uh, you'll see it in those, those real outliers, uh, in your populations.
Scott Sorrell (00:23:16):
Yeah. It's a fascinating topic. You know, another one of the speakers was Dr. Pete Hanson from the University of Florida. And I remember one of his comments was that you know, you're impacting well, his research was on the, uh, gene methylation of, uh, the one or two-day-old embryo. And they had done a lot of in vitro research, but anyway, he was talking about, um, the ability to impact three generations, the animal that you're feeding the nutrient to, um, the, the calf that the animal's carrying and then the go Nads, which impacts the next generation. So it's, uh, it, it's, it's a fascinating topic and, and one maybe we'll have to explore here, uh, sometime down the road.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:23:57):
Yeah. If there's one thing that's true about genetics, um, you know, we don't know what we don't know. Yeah. And 20 years ago we wouldn't have been talking about these things. You know, we, when I was in graduate school and I won't say when that is, but you can, you can maybe figure that out. Um, um, that's when really genomics first started and I remember people saying, and this would've been in the early nineties saying that, well, by the end of the decade, we won't have to measure any phenotypes. We're gonna know all the genotypes, we're gonna know the performance and, and that's proven to be so far from the truth. And, and the more time that goes on, the more we learn about the complexity of the genome what's turned on, what's not turned on all of these things. It's just a rich area of research. So, um, it, it's, it's exciting to begin to understand those and be able to, to hope they have those help us
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:24:48):
Going with that. You mentioned that, uh, you rely heavily on genomic selection. How, how heavily do you rely on that versus the actual phenotype of the offspring or parent?
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:24:58):
So, yeah, I, I mean, basically we're, um, so, so we use a single-step genomic production. So basically we're incorporating genomics into that relationship matrix, that underlying relationship matrix. So we're not, uh, estimating a, an allele effect if you will. And then combining that with the phenotype, it's all one analysis. And so from that standpoint, the jump inaccuracy of that 25 to percent, I mean, that would tell you the impact that it's had on, on the program, but, but you're using it in that we're using it in that fashion versus, you know, having a separate analysis that we're trying to combine.
Scott Sorrell (00:25:38):
All right. Maybe change some gears here. Um, Tom, I'd like to kind of circle back, you know, uh, to one of the topics you addressed in your web R, which is your 14, 14 21 programs. Um, can you give us some background on that and why that's important?
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:25:55):
Yeah, I sure can. We, um, about a decade ago, we kind of sat down as a team and, and talked to our customers. We, we, we, um, gathered as much information as we could to understand what the future direction needed to be for, a maternal program. And what we heard from the industry then is that you know, labor is continuing to be a bigger challenge, and it's almost impossible to have a conversation with a producer today or a customer and have them not bring up labor as their biggest challenge. So when you think about that in terms of a selection program, we can certainly create a lot of genetic potentials, but your level of management to extract, that's not going up, it's going down. So we have to produce an animal. That's more, self-reliant more, self-sufficient able to produce.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:26:47):
And, and in terms of our sow produce and we pigs on her own. And so a big part of 14, 14 was, was really to identify those sows that have that ability to wean 14, 14-pound pigs, 21 days on her own. So, uh, that was a big driver there. Um, certainly, uh, we want a pig that's high quality. And what I mean by that, is it, it, you know, it's born at a healthy weight. Um, it, it it's gonna nurse well, it, it's going to go on to wean and survive. Uh, we don't have people to run extensive fostering programs on farms to try and save more pigs. We need SOS that can lactate these pigs on her own, um, and, and go on to wean those. So that was a big driver for us. Um, and, and then just, you know, looking at the complete Pharaoh to finish the model in terms of what optimizes that whole system, and what's the south farm's contribution. So it's, it's the south, really the south farm. You want to produce more pigs, but those pigs go on into finishing. So you have to look at the whole picture and understand the quality of the animal, how that impacts your growth, finish costs. And that makes you think a little bit differently about what you want to do. So that's the basis for that from a kind of a big picture standpoint. Uh, but what was the those were the key drivers for us putting that program together,
Scott Sorrell (00:28:16):
You know, building on that during your webinar, you mentioned that, uh, sound nutrition is one of the areas that are hardest to research and the know it's one of the areas that are most lacking in terms of data. I kinda like to ask Jason, you know, how are you dealing with that?
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:28:34):
Well, it is, it's, it's really hard to get data in just research into south farms, just because there are so many moving parts of it that, you know, can confound your results. So you got areas from health too, you know, you still gotta treat a research farm, as a commercial farm. So you gotta meet breeding targets and so forth like that. And ultimately the pigs have to go out the door at some point. Um, so from a nutrition standpoint, the way we look at that is we try to control the body condition of the cell and gestation, um, and feed to more of the level of the so, and get her an appropriate, uh, appropriate body level that we think is gonna maximize intake and lactation. And that kind of just keeps playing off at, uh, on each other, where we minimize the fat accretion I gestation and, and hope or think that that's gonna drive feed intake during that lactational period.
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:29:35):
And then once we know that feed intake, we can face a lot of our nutritional recommendations off of that, because really when we look at, from a, from a lactating, so in the pH, uh, the house that, you know, production with the, with the growth rate of the pig and how many pigs she has, is gonna drive your lysing needs for milk production, you can kind of debate, well, maybe we should set lysing levels to where they're gaining protein too, as well, because some of that weight does have value to a commercial farm. But at this standpoint, I don't think we're quite there to be able to quantify as that quantify that area. So we're trying to set that, um, uh, basely to maximize production in the weed pig and we weight pain, paying everything with the broad, broad stroke brush and, and, um, and not a lot of producers from a commercial standpoint will track or, or, or know what their feed intake is. Um, so that's, it's a struggle. It is.
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:30:39):
So going back to the 14 and 14, I think that's interesting, cuz there is, um, a kind of an experimental selection program that was made up looking at early exponential and late exponential growth in poultry and for the, uh, early exponential growth, you look at 14-day body weights. And, uh, those types tend to be your more, I guess, maternal lines. So they're usually the S egg producers, uh, you know, good fertility laying ability, more feed efficient, and then the late exponential growth is kind of more where your main lines come from. So I thought that was interesting that, uh, that it's also going along with, I guess, uh, improved piglet numbers and that type thing.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:31:21):
Yeah, I, that's a really interesting point you make, because I, maybe lets a segue a little bit into the growth finish side because one of the things that I think, um, that that's a bit of a quandary, right? So, um, if you want a pig that has extremely strong early life performance, that's a different an animal than the one that's gonna finish in pigs anyway at 300 pounds and, and efficiently because there are certainly genetic lines out there that, um, you know, if you did a trial ay line trial and stopped at the end of the nursery, you would obviously choose one or the other, but then you'd carry that on into finish and you would completely flip peer decision. So I think how those growth curves are put together has changed over time. My, personal theory, um, is that if we, for years have selected for a lean pig at heavy market weight.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:32:19):
So that's what the industry wants and has wanted or desired for a long time. So if that's a 290 or 300-pound pig, what you would be doing is you want a pig that has maximal growth to that endpoint and remains lean as the cutability that we're after. So basically you're pushing maturity out. You're pushing that growth curve out further, probably creating a, maybe a larger animal, maybe an animal that, um, matures later in life. So I think those are all implications of how we've selected. This animal certainly has implications for, you know, how we, how we're feeding the animal, but those growth curves have changed. So, you know, early life growth doesn't look the same as it did 30 years ago and 20 years ago. And, and I think that's a consequence of what the industry's wanted, but I, I, I admire my colleagues in poultry because you can have that, that six-week bird and a, is it a 12-week bird? I can't remember what those are, but there are big differences in those programs.
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:33:22):
Yeah. And even though that the the the growth pattern has changed, we know we can still alter some of that, um, by nutritional processes and, and using, you know, more expensive ingredients, more palatable ingredients, and early nursery. It's just a matter of, you know, are they gonna pay for themselves? And I think the adage is if they have a, of a, an extra pound coming outta nursery, that's gonna carry forward into finishing or even multiply off of that. And I don't know if that's always the case. Um, it just matters if that's based on if you're doing that through a nutritional process or if it's a genetic process. And then what Tom said with the eating pattern, some of these, some of these pigs, I mean, in our research barn, we get, it's not uncommon to get six and a half, uh, pounds of the feed intake at a hundred, 150-pound bodyweight. It's just phenomenal what these pigs will sit down and eat.
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:34:18):
So are y'all selected for more and more rapid growth as the poultry have also been doing? We've had some, uh, issues that you run into, um, nutritionists, blame, uh, genetics, the genetics has blamed the nutritionist, but anyway, it typically comes back to rapid growth from whichever side, uh, whichever side you're coming from, but stuff like tip dysplasia or ASCI. And more recently, I think, um, Woody breast and white striping are y'all having issues such as that in pigs.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:34:49):
Uh, we haven't seen the equivalent to Woody breast at least to my knowledge, and certainly not, not in the lines that we're working with. Um, I, I do think though that, um, uh, you know, the interaction between nutrition and, um, you know, skeletal well, nutrition, genetics, and then skeletal integrity is something that we need to always be aware of and, and understand. I would say that you know, the pigs probably haven't gone as far as poultry in terms of the genetic risk bonds that might trigger some of those issues. But I, I do think that's probably part of our future and we'll, we'll wanna learn from the poultry guys on how to deal with that, but, you know, it's, it's, uh, the growth rate, these pigs have it, it's like the, you know, the six-foot, eighth-grader type of syndrome, you know, they're growing extremely fast.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:35:42):
You have to, uh, you know, hopefully, have, you know, adequate, um, nutrient availability, but there's also this just genetic component to it, I think as well, where you have fast growth, the skeletal structure has to keep up and everything thing associated with that. So those are all, you know, issues that are on our minds. And, and, um, you, you do tend to select against some of those pigs that have those issues because they don't go on to be selected at the nucleus level. You know, they, they, there's a certain amount of calling that takes place, uh, with those animals that, that aren't don't have that structural integrity. So there's, there's some of that pressure going on, but yeah, I, I appreciate the question and I think it's, it's something we need to be aware of.
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:36:31):
Yeah. On the, uh, on, at least for the pigs and the Caracas standpoint, the Caracas, you know, the fat quality, uh, our biggest issue has been more on the fat quality side, and that's more of a nutritional problem where feeding highly unsaturated, fatty acids and can be due more. So the ethanols policy that we have in feeding distillers with, with high amount of corn oil nowadays. So, uh, the nutrition partners probably a little bit more to blend on, uh, on any Carcass quality issues that we're having nowadays. But I agree with Tom it's, you know, we need to be mindful of how these, this growth rate is actually affecting how these pigs move and, and, and function, and still be productive in some of these finishing units
Scott Sorrell (00:37:16):
Kind of circling back. Uh, Tom, you had mentioned that you wanted a, I think you said a 3 0 9 pound pig and you wanted them very lean, um, is what do you see changing going forward? Are we, we gonna keep getting bigger and bigger have, are we get to the size that we, we want and then, and then what's driving that size. Is it the consumer's desire for a certain size meat cut or is it, you know, the Packers and what they can manage? Uh, I know to ask a lot of questions here. I'll just, let's go with that.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:37:45):
No, I, I, I think a great question. And, and, and, and I, um, I can only really share kind of the feedback we've gotten from different, different customers and different aspects of the industry. So I don't want to claim to be, an expert in any of those areas. Um, but, but certainly when we look at pig size, we're seeing that increase over time. So, uh, the same as you would optimize throughput in a grow-finish system with the tonnage of pork or pig that you can push through that system. You know, I think when you look at the packing industry, uh, it's a very similar economy. So, you know, if you can have a larger pig coming in, uh, each rail in that just carries that much more productive. So I think from that standpoint, there's this economic incentive to push weights higher.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:38:30):
Um, I think we'll continue to see that, but the flip side of that is, is that, um, you know, I know people have shared with us that the consumer, or, you know, whoever that is not, not necessarily you and I, that are going to the grocery store, but people that are buying involved for foodservice and those types of things, you know, you hear complaints of cuts being too big now. So I think there's this, there's a bit of back and forth. That's starting to occur on pig size and, and I don't know where that's gonna end up usually, you know, economics tends to rule the date, but certainly, we're still expecting a trend for heavier pigs. And, and I, I don't know if I can predict where that'll stop, but too 90 is pretty typical today. And, you know, going up over 300, I know, has, has been looked at by folks and, and seems to be very economical as well.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:39:25):
So I think that's part of it. One, one thing I do see changing though, is, uh, we're seeing a lot more, of course, we've had integration for a while with different sit on both, both production and packing, but we're also seeing more producers that are forward integrating into packing. And the implication of that for us as a company is that historically our pig has been designed for our direct customer. Who's a port producer to drop that pig off at the plant. So you want an efficient pig that grows quickly, and meets the cutability matrix that maximizes its payout. Once you have ownership in packing now, things like meat quality become more important to you because there's no economic incentive to do that today. Other than a packer saying, if you don't, we're, you know, we're not taking your pigs, but, um, I, I think we may see that start to evolve here over the next decade.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:40:25):
And, you know, we're gonna start hearing more talk about, uh, meat quality. I think as a company, we need to pay attention to that and that could, you know, impact how we select our Ory line, for example. And so we're very engaged in those conversations and, uh, definitely see, um, you know, the industry as a whole has already moved to a deoxy. And I think the reason for that is that the deoxy compared to Pietre or Hampshire-based CYS brings more meat quality. So PAC has recognized that now the question is how do we differentiate within the diox that are available to us? And so that's where you're gonna get into, you know, higher quality cuts coming in the plant, maybe specific labels put on those or brands. I think all of those things are gonna be part of the future.
Scott Sorrell (00:41:18):
You know, our industry's gotten very good at, um, you know, growing high-quality protein, very inexpensively. And, and I do wonder if there is an opportunity to at least, you know, carve out some niches to differentiate ourselves, right? We've got a little farm market here that sells, uh, some obscure breed from Europe because it supposedly tastes better. And then there's another one down the way that, uh, that sells Berkshire, right. Uh, because it supposedly tastes better. And I, I can only assume that has to do with, uh, fat quality and, and fat content, but, uh, just seeing was like, maybe there's not been a lot of emphases put on, you know, the actual, um, aesthetics and, and taste of the meats. So,
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:42:03):
Yeah, and, and there's been some, some groups that are individual producers or small groups of producers that have carved out nice niches for themselves, you know, with a high-quality product that's differentiated. Um, and I, and I think those opportunities are there for people that want to pursue those and, and, and can market that. Um, I think in the broader industry, um, of course, you've, you've, you're dealing with a lot more volume, but certainly differentiation in those products would, would occur as well. That, that doesn't preclude some of the smaller niche markets, but, you know, hopefully, brings a better eating experience, um, uh, to, to have pork just compete well with beef and the other options that are, that are out there,
Scott Sorrell (00:42:50):
You know, while we're on the subject to consumers, are there any other, uh, consumer implications, uh, to deal with from either a nutritional perspective or, um, genetic perspective?
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:42:59):
Well, I think, uh, from a consumer or industry product, um, issues right now, we're seeing is more on the welfare site where we see more of the prop flow space issues. So it's a little bit, uh, or so on the economics of what producers have to go through to produce a, uh, viable product. Um, now with that, you know, we've gone from gestating stalls to group housing to larger pen size. So I think some of the, uh, areas that we need to look at, or at least be mindful shortly is just how the behavior, some of these animals change as we make genetic, uh, improvements. So when we look at, you know, the different pure breeds, uh, uh, lines, um, that we have on test between the York and land, race, and du, we know that they have different eating patterns. So with the D having, you know, being a large intake, large goer, but maybe go to the feeder a few fewer times a day versus a Yorkshire who, you know, will nibble so many times, but they'll go back 10 times a, a day. So, you know, figuring out some of those eating patterns and how they apply to raise a better pig and, um, how producers can use that or understand that in the field,
Scott Sorrell (00:44:29):
You know, kinda along the same lines, you know, we and agriculture are gonna be, uh, charged with a challenge of feeding an ever-growing population. Right. And not only feeding them but feeding them sustainably. Um, so are those considerations you guys think about either from a genetic or, or nutritional perspective and if so, what, what are they,
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:44:46):
Yeah, I think when we think of, um, the sustainability story, um, I think the pork industry even today has a tremendous story to tell. Um, I know the pork board has, has figures on that over the last, you know, uh, 30, 40, 50 years on the changes that have taken place. So if you think of something like, uh, feed efficiency and what that does to reduce the, um, uh, the amount of land required to raise a pound of pork, uh, that gets into, you know, the amount of water used and, and so on. So all of those things have really strong, uh, very desirable trends that have made a tremendous contribution to sustainability already. So want to continue those, um, you know, I, I think some other areas of research that we're engaged in is, uh, for example, trying to, uh, select an animal that's more resilient to the challenges that it faces, uh, in, in the normal production system, particularly with disease ease challenges.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:45:53):
And so if we can select a more resilient animal, that's more, uh, able to, you know, perhaps survive and thrive, uh, even when exposed to, uh, kind of a normal level of pathogens, those things I think, uh, are useful because they reduce antibiotic use, um, which is a public concern, I think, amongst some groups and, uh, has a direct impact on those things. So, you know, there are areas that, um, you know, anytime we're making genetic improvement, I, I know I'm probably coming from a, a bias standpoint here, but, uh, anytime we improve efficiency and anytime we can improve more output with less input, we're having a huge impact on sustainability. It's a great story to tell us, we don't do as good a job as an industry in getting that story out.
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:46:44):
Well, one thing Tom hasn't talked about was just what we've looked at from a survivability trait, uh, perspective, and, you know, the biggest sustainability, uh, an area that we could increase is, is reducing mortality. So if we can affect, uh, mortality or increase survivability through our genetic selection index, that's, you know, that's a huge, uh, saver from, uh, you know, fewer inputs to create the same amount of C produce, um, you know, from a nutrition standpoint, um, you know, we're always looking to use less and get out more. So, uh, I think we can, you know, from a diet standpoint, we can use more crystal amino acids and reduce the amount of nitrogen that's wasted or not being utilized by the pig. Uh, and that goes into pits. Uh, what we kind of run up against is right now is we need a minimum amount or minimum level, of crude protein in the diet.
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:47:42):
Otherwise, we are affecting, um, performance. And, and that goes back to the, what we don't know on, um, what or amino acid levels, Orino acid requirements. And, um, we may figure out that we need a certain amount, of nitrogen for the pig to synthesize, uh, other non-essential amino acids within the body. Uh, so, you know, immune acids that we didn't need to provide through the I before, and then maybe we need to do that in the future, if we're gonna bring that, that crude protein down even more, um, a little bit on the flip side of that. And, and I know we talked about crops earlier, but, uh, there's some research out there that shows that soybean meal, uh, provides some, um, some benefits and especially in a, in a low health, uh, environment. So on the flip side, if we have, a health outbreak, we might want to use more soybean meal and more, uh, a crude protein within that diet to help some of these pigs. To get through a disease outbreak,
Scott Sorrell (00:48:45):
You know, speaking of health, that's one topic. I, I, I don't wanna miss before we close here, but, um, what's taking place from a genetic perspective to mitigate disease.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:48:55):
I'm struggling to answer that just from a couple of different directions. So as far as mitigating disease, when you look at the health that we need to maintain at, at our nucleus level, um, there's been a tremendous amount of work done on and biosecurity and, and all the steps that we have to take to secure those sites, uh, to ensure we don't have any fomite or direct transfer of any disease. Uh, we are doing a lot of filtration at most of, our nucleus sites, so that you're also through a HEPA filter, keeping the air going in, uh, filtered for many outside viruses. So if that's the part that might be part of your question there as well, is, is the work that's been done there that's been critical for us, but from a, from a disease mitigation standpoint, the, um, one of the things that we've, uh, actually implemented just recently in our, our D selection program is selecting to improve survivability.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:49:57):
So we've been able to demonstrate that, you know, while the, her abilities are, are, are low they're on about the same level as litter size. So we know we can make some, uh, genetic improvement, but, uh, there are differences between CYS and the survivability of their offspring. Uh, we can measure that on a very general basis just by looking at, uh, survival rates of offspring, of CYS in commercial environments, which is somewhat challenged. And, and that is a trait that we put into our index directly to try, and, and it will identify those sizes that have more robust offsprings. So that's a mitigation strategy. I think that's got a long-term, uh, path to it. Uh, but, but those are some of the key areas that, that we would have been focused on both from preventing disease if you will, or just preventing its transfer into a farm and preserving those farms for future genetic progress, but also in the pig itself as the offspring go out into the real world and have to deal with pathogens, creating a more robust animal.
Scott Sorrell (00:51:06):
Yeah. I, I, I was kind of thinking more specifically, is there anything that you're doing from a genomics perspective to look at, um, improving specifically the innate or adaptive immune systems? Have we gotten that far along yet in identifying, you know, those specific genes and then, and then from a nutritional perspective, you know, how do we turn them on and off?
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:51:27):
I, yeah, I, I can take the genetic question first, Jason, but, um, from we, we have been involved in some research just, just in the last few years with, um, a research consortium that we're part of where we've looked at, uh, pigs that have been through a disease challenge model. And what that's allowed us to do is to, um, you know, basically look at the activation of the immune system and look at, uh, various, you know, parameters from a blood sample, for example, or in tissues, and then look at the genes that might be turned on. And of course, a lot of those, as you might expect, are associated with a major historic compatibility complex. So really a lot of, uh, an I that is likely associated with the immune system, uh, directly, um, there appear to be elements of the innate immune system that are also associated, with resilience to disease. Um, I would say from my perspective that that was a tremendous project. We've learned a lot from it. Now we gotta figure out how to implement it. So we're starting to learn more about the underlying biology. Uh, when you think back on what I said earlier about selecting for just survivability, we're likely going after those alleles through a phenotypical trait. Uh, but I think understanding that underlying biology is gonna make us much more precise and, and think that's a future, uh, endeavor as we, we go forward
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:52:54):
Say in poultry, they, uh, I don't know if they necessarily do it so much commercially, but I know there's been a lot of research and there are several lines that are selected for and against certain diseases for susceptibility and resistance. And one of the most, I guess probably the most famous one is from, uh, uh, geneticists is been around forever. Paul Siegel at Virginia Tech, and he's selected on just antibody production and it's to sheep red blood cells. And I think he's been doing this for, I think in almost 50 years and the lines are still going and, uh, he's still, uh, still breeding them and still selecting them. And it's kind of, uh, interesting to look at the offspring between the two, because your high antibody, your last line are, um, are, are usually a lot smaller and your, your low antibody productions are usually kind of bigger. So it's interesting too, I think, I think the main takeaway is that people it's resource allocation, but it's just, uh, it's interesting how you can select for that much divergence out of a, you know, random bread population.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:53:54):
Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, the goal in production is to not turn on the immune system. Yeah. Right. Cause it cost energy.
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:54:00):
And,
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:54:01):
Um,
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:54:02):
But yeah, that, I think that makes perfect sense that that's kind of the direction those lines will go. Um, but there's obvious, you know, the thing with genetics too, is there's always a balance, right? We can't go too extreme in any one direction. So I think as we learn things, particularly, you know, the immune, the system's a lot harder to measure. We can't just go out and weigh a pig and have some, it's an indirect measure, maybe a, of, of immune system function, but we have to be able to get some kind of phenotype. Those are they're there. They're hard to get, um, they're expensive to measure, but you know, I, I do believe that, that there are opportunities there and they're gonna, they're probably not forefront today, but they're being developed.
Scott Sorrell (00:54:46):
Gentlemen, as we wind down here, I'd kinda like you to take a look into your crystal balls, imagine, uh, the, the pig of 2050 and, uh, Tom, what does, what does that pig look like from a genetic perspective, a phenotype perspective and how are you gonna get there? And then Jason, how in the world are you gonna feed him?
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:55:08):
That is the hardest question I've had all day, the 2050s, a long time from now. But, um, one thing that genetics has never done is, is failed to achieve. And what I mean by that is if we think of things like litter size, there are people that, um, you know, used to think when we got to 12 pigs per litter, we were at an optimum if you will. Uh, but the animal continues to prove us wrong. So I think when we think of the future, we're gonna be able to create female lines that, uh, you know, are, are going to give birth to and wean, you know, 95% of the pigs that they give pers two, they're gonna be at a, at a, at a heavy weaning weight and, and just continue to perform, uh, through finishing. I think if you think that far ahead though, other things are gonna have entered the picture.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:56:00):
We talked about disease. I think we're gonna have lines that, um, uh, are resistant to different diseases, uh, either through selection or potentially even through a gene-editing approach. And there are lots of opportunities therewith, with editing. Um, it's a matter really of consumer acceptance of that product and how we define that. But I, I think that's a tool that we're going to use specifically for, uh, disease to start with. And then there's probably gonna be other applications to speed up the process. So I guess my vision would be a pig that's highly resistant and, and thrives in the environment that we provide for it. Um, you know, we're gonna have reduced mortality to minimal levels. I think if I had a 30-year crystal ball, that's where we
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:56:51):
Did well from a nutrition standpoint, I think we're gonna be able to be much more detailed in feeding these pigs, whether it's, uh, you know, instead of feeding one lactation diet to your so, or maybe we'll have a couple of different feed lines to feed different diets at, at different stages in that production. And when you, when you talk about a little bit beyond the scope of this talk here from a feed billing standpoint, there's a lot of neat things going on with sensors and inline IR testing that we can get an ingredient, uh, analysis back, uh, quicker and more accurate. So we can formulate these diets much more precisely. So we're not overfeeding or underfeeding at certain points, uh, of those pigs' life. Um, and I think just the overall acceptance, of technology in the barns from simple cameras barns, uh, that's gonna help us determine the size of these pigs and the health of these pigs and how to feed 'em differently from that standpoint. Um, so, and one thing I do see is I do see a lot more swine nutrition graduate students in school here today than I did at my, during my, uh, period. So I think we're having a lot younger groups coming through. That's gonna bring a lot more, uh, ideas or, or fresher ideas to the industry. And I think that's something that's, uh, uh, very good for the swine industry in total
Scott Sorrell (00:58:20):
Insightful guys. Uh, they just called the last call. That means I'm, I'm gonna get another drink, uh, know about you guys, but as we, as we wind it down here, I'd like for each of you, all three of you give us, uh, you know, one, two key takeaway items that either an integrator or nutritionist, uh, can take home and, and, and learn from today. So, um, Jason, why don't we start with you?
Dr. Jason Schneider (00:58:46):
Well, I hope, uh, people can take home today that, uh, you know, we're making improvements to this pig every day and that's going to change the way that we feed it. And we're, we're gonna bring information to you and, and hopefully, uh, information that's gonna help you make your production and your system better. And, um, you know, we're gonna keep, keep bringing the best, big and the best people, uh, and the be the best genetic progress forward.
Scott Sorrell (00:59:12):
Thank you, Zach.
Dr. Zack Lowman (00:59:16):
I guess the takeaway would be that I think genetics in all species for that matter are always changing and, uh, to meet the consumer demands and, uh, supply the increasing food supply that we're, that we need. It's, uh, I think it's gonna be a never-ending, never-ending thing,
Scott Sorrell (00:59:34):
Tom's final thoughts.
Dr. Tom Rathje (00:59:36):
Yeah. I, I think one thing I'd like to leave the audience with is that, um, you know, as a genetic supplier, we, we strive to understand what, what does the industry need in the future? And, you know, what are the issues we face today with the animals we work with? Uh, is there a genetic solution for improving those? And, uh, just to be, you know, just to know that you're or voice matters. And, you know, if we look to the opportunities, whether it be with the female line, with the terminal sideline, we talked a little bit about meat quality today and, and potential impact there. There's just a lot of opportunity out there, and genetics is kind of that base if you will, that we can build from. So, uh, just know that there's a, there's listening here, um, and, and we're, we're working hard to make the pig better every day, as Jason mentioned.
Scott Sorrell (01:00:31):
Good. So, gentlemen, I wanna thank you for coming today. This has been, uh, very enlightening. I've enjoyed it immensely, uh, appreciate, uh, you know, learning about the impact that ethics is gonna have on our lives. Uh, you know, this is exciting stuff and I'm, I'm sure that we're gonna be addressing this in future webinars and future podcasts. And I hope to see you guys here, uh, once again, at the real science exchange, I'd also like to thank our loyal listeners for joining us. Once again, uh, I gotta admit, this is one of my favorite parts of the week. Be able to sit down with everyone here and, you know, have a nice, uh, uh, relaxing drink and, and talk animal science. It's, it's a lot of fun. So we hope to see you next time here at the real science exchange, where it's always happy hour, and you're always among friends.
Speaker 6 (01:01:16):
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