In this episode, we honor and celebrate the remarkable career and contributions of Dr. Jim Drackley from the University of Illinois, a pioneer in dairy science and animal nutrition. Jim’s work has reshaped our understanding of dairy cow health, metabolism and nutrition. Dr. Cardoso, Dr. Overton, and co-host Dr. Jeff Elliott are former coworkers or graduate students of Dr. Drackley’s. (0:11)
In this episode, we honor and celebrate the remarkable career and contributions of Dr. Jim Drackley from the University of Illinois, a pioneer in dairy science and animal nutrition. Jim’s work has reshaped our understanding of dairy cow health, metabolism and nutrition. Dr. Cardoso, Dr. Overton, and co-host Dr. Jeff Elliott are former coworkers or graduate students of Dr. Drackley’s. (0:11)
Dr. Drackley begins by telling the audience about his background and how he became a dairy scientist. He talks about several of his mentors during his schooling. (9:20)
Speaking of mentors, Scott asks Dr. Elliot, Dr. Overton, and Dr. Cardoso to describe Dr. Drackley’s mentorship of them during teaching, graduate school and beyond. They praise Jim’s thoughtfulness and hands-off approach that taught them to think critically. (14:06)
When it comes to major contributions to the industry, Dr. Drackley names two that he is most proud of: expanding the knowledge of controlled energy dry cow programs using straw and corn silage to help control energy intake and his work in baby calf nutrition, specifically feeding more milk on-farm to calves. Dr. Overton adds that a visionary paper Dr. Drackley wrote in the late 1990s where he referred to the transition period as the final frontier as another important contribution. Dr. Cardoso also emphasizes Dr. Drackley’s excellent teaching skills as another achievement of note. (20:58)
Dr. Drackley says the teaching part of the job was the part that scared him the most when he started. Graduate school offers little formal teaching training and experience so one learns on the job. Jim describes his teaching style as organized, and he liked teaching in an outline fashion, working from the main topic down through the details. He worked hard to get to know the students, learn their names as soon as possible, and be approachable and empathetic. Later in his career, he used a flipped classroom approach for a lactation biology course and enjoyed it. (28:45)
The panel then reminisces about how much technology has changed from a teaching perspective as well as statistical analysis. Lecturing has moved from chalkboard to overhead projector to slide carousel to PowerPoint. Statistical analysis has moved from punch cards or sending data to a mainframe computer to performing real-time statistical analysis on your computer at your desk. (33:00)
Jeff, Phil, and Tom share stories and memories of their time with Jim. (37:30)
Scott asks Jim what challenges will need to be tackled in the future in the dairy industry. He lists environmental aspects (nitrogen, phosphorus, and greenhouse gases), increasing economic pressure on farms, and improving forage production and efficiency of nutrient use. Dr. Drackley’s advice for young researchers is to carve out a niche for yourself. (47:40)
Dr. Elliott, Dr. Overton, and Dr. Cardoso share some final thoughts paying tribute to Dr. Drackley and his accomplished career. (1:06:18)
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Scott Sorrell (00:00:00):
Good evening everyone, and welcome to the Real Science Exchange, the pubcast where leading scientists and industry professionals meet over a few drinks to discuss the latest ideas and trends in animal nutrition. Hi, I'm Scott Sorrell. I'm gonna be your host here tonight at The Real Science Exchange. And tonight we have the honor of celebrating the remarkable career and contributions of Dr. James Drackley from the University of Illinois, a pioneer in dairy science and animal nutrition. Dr. Drackley's groundbreaking work has reshaped our understanding of dairy, cow health, metabolism, and nutrition, influencing not only academia but also dairy producers worldwide. So, join us as we take a closer look at the legacy of Dr. Jim Drackley, the man, the scientist, and his enduring influence on the dairy industry. But before we get started on this great conversation, let's do a few introductions. First, wanna welcome some past students and coworkers of Dr. Drackley. Let's start Tom with you, Tom. Dr. Tom Overton from Cornell University. Welcome back to the pub tonight.
Dr. Tom Overton (00:01:06):
Hey, thanks, Scott. It also looks like you and I didn't get the memo on plaid flannel.
Scott Sorrell (00:01:11):
I know, that is winter dress wear, though, right? And it is cold here where we're at, here in the northeast, isn't it, Tom? Tom, I wanted to ask you real quick, how did you first come to meet Dr. Drackley? What, what, what's, what was that process like?
Dr. Tom Overton (00:01:27):
Yeah, so I, met Jim first, you know, I was in graduate school at the University of Illinois. I showed up in 1991, and he'd been there for a relatively short time, at that point in time. And, you know, he was certainly right in the same hallway. You know, my master's degree was with Jimmy Clark, and then again switched to Jim's mentorship for a PhD. So but yeah, so, I mean, and the, the grad students were all kind of housed together, so lots of interaction between students that were, you know, working for the various faculty members on the, on the dairy side.
Scott Sorrell (00:02:03):
Okay. Now, did Jim find you, or did you find him? How'd you guys get connected?
Dr. Tom Overton (00:02:09):
Well, it was a natural connection, right? Because we all kind of were, you know, we had room and nutrition seminar. I mean, there were all kinds of ways to interact and stuff like that. So I guess it was, I guess it was kind of mutual.
Scott Sorrell (00:02:20):
Alright, thank you, Tom. And we're in having, a newcomer to the pub tonight. Dr. Phil Cardoso from the University of Illinois. Welcome, Phil. Welcome. This is your first time here.
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:02:33):
Yeah. Glad to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
Scott Sorrell (00:02:36):
Yeah. So I've got the same question for you. How did you come to know Dr. Jim Drackley?
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:02:42):
Well, I think that to be accurate, the first time was on paper. So I did my master's degree back in Brazil which was related to the displacement of abomasum. So I was reading all this research, and then I said, Hmm, I think I would like to do a PhD. You know, really learned nutrition. You know, the vet school was not the strongest at that time, at least on nutrition. And then, you know, at that time, I remember paying FedEx to ship all my paperwork back to Illinois. And then I got this email from Jim, saying, Hey, are you really interested? Or are you serious about pursuing your PhD? And then we just start talking. And then I, yeah, I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but I think in the, the at that time, and we were talking about 2009 they would go to the secretary or Jim would go to the secretary and there was a box with a bunch of applications, and then they would select the students. But I'll let Jim say how the process of looking for the students changes through time. Nowadays, we do all online, so it's much faster, I would say. Not sure easier, but faster.
Scott Sorrell (00:03:54):
Yeah. Do you want to comment on that, Jim?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:03:57):
Yeah, I think that sparked some memories there of the secretary with the box of applications. So, I met or took on Phil a bit blindly, I guess without them, we didn't really know each other, or try to think if I even met you before you came. I'm, I'm not sure that you did that. You did?
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:04:21):
Yeah. I think we just visited but that was on that year. I remember I helped Nicole, one of your students move some furniture or books or things from another office here on campus. So she was finishing up, and then I would start in August. That probably was in May, maybe of that year.
Scott Sorrell (00:04:43):
Yeah. Interesting. Well, before I officially introduce the man of the hour, I'd like to welcome back a friend and a coworker, Dr. Jeff Elliott with Balchem, Jeff welcome. And how did you come to know Dr. Drackley?
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:05:00):
Well, there's, there may be two versions of this mine and Jim's, but I'll give you mine. So like a lot of undergraduates, I was focused on vet school, and wanted to go to vet school, then I met a beautiful brunette at the University of Kentucky who got a job at the College of Ag in Illinois. And I thought, man, maybe I should try grad school. I really didn't know anything about it, but I went. There really weren't any spaces available at the time, initially. And then Jimmy Clark who was Tom's Master's advisor said, well, we've, we've just hired this new guy, you know, coming in out of originally outta South Dakota, now Iowa State, and he might need a student. I didn't even know what he was gonna focus on. I just knew I was gonna follow this brunette.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:05:57):
So, you know, it'd be nice to sit here and say, Hey, I knew, you know, Drackley coming in, he was gonna be a great researcher and, you know, changed the way we looked at transition cows. But in reality, it was the luck of the draw. And the first time I met him, he came in just for like a few days. I think he was, he was staying at the Red Roof Inn out by the airport or by the mall. I think we met for breakfast. But then I came into grad school. I was there six months before he finished. 'cause, Like most grad students, he was a little slow at getting it done also you know, finishing everything. So I started classes and getting some labs ready and such. But yep,
Scott Sorrell (00:06:46):
Jeff, I trust that lovely brunette was the lovely Corina.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:06:50):
It is. And as I tell people, I probably wouldn't tell that story if we weren't, you know, she still wasn't in the other room. So,
Scott Sorrell (00:06:57):
Yeah. Jeff since we are in a virtual pub here tonight, is anything special in your glass tonight?
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:07:04):
Well, I've got coffee, which I'm definitely drinking but I've got just a small taste of probably my only drink back then. And that was Maker's Mark bourbon. Yeah.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:07:17):
Kind of as a go back.
Scott Sorrell (00:07:20):
Yeah. Good deal. And finally, the man of the hour, Dr. Jim Drackley. Jim, welcome back to the Real Science Exchange, and congratulations on your recent retirement.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:07:30):
Thanks, Scott.
Scott Sorrell (00:07:32):
Yeah, gentlemen, as we start the conversation tonight, let's first raise our glasses to a great mentor, dairy scientist, and an even better man. Here's to Dr. Jim Drackley. Cheers.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:07:43):
Thank Jim.
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Scott Sorrell (00:08:55):
So, Jim, I guess as we get started, I'd like to go right back to the beginning. So can you tell us just a little bit about your childhood, where you grew up, what were the circumstances, and then what led you to be a dairy scientist?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:09:10):
Yeah. Well, I grew up on a, a real small dairy farm, in southwestern Minnesota. And, when I was probably about eighth grade or somewhere in there, my brother and I bought some cows. My older brother wanted to start up the dairy again. And so, I grew up my high school years milking cows and, and trying to grow a small herd of registered guernseys. And so I, I was very interested in dairy cows and I liked the feeding part of it, that, the nutrition part. I was also always kind of a science nerd. I really enjoyed chemistry. And when I kind of found out that nutrition was applied chemistry, that struck my interest. I had an older brother-in-law, that was going through graduate school after he got out of the military.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:10:18):
And so I, I kind of had an understanding of what graduate school was. So when I went to college at SDSU I, my advisor, I told my advisor, it was Ken McGuffy, you know him. I told him that I was interested in research and he got me working in the research lab right away and put me in all of the, difficult courses like the full calculus series that all the engineers took and what else? Physics and, and so on. And I thought he was kind of crazy to put me in all that stuff, but I, I learned about, or learned years later that he was actually looking out for my welfare and becoming a scientist. So that's, that's kind of how I, I got into research. I, I, when I finished college, I had a couple of offers to go into the industry. I, I had an offer to work in the AI industry in California, and had a, a chance to work for a, a feed company here in the Midwest and, and just decided that I was gonna go on into graduate school and, and take up my interest in research. So that's, that's how that happened.
Scott Sorrell (00:11:40):
Okay. So you mentioned Dr. McGuffy. can you talk a little bit about him and maybe some of the other mentors that you had as you were starting your career?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:11:50):
Yeah. Ken was a, a young assistant professor at the time that I, that I started at South Dakota State. And he was, he was a very good mentor, was really, I think, excited to have somebody come in and, and say they were interested in research at such a, you know, a, a young stage of the college process. So he was very good. Unfortunately, he left the university, went to Eastman Kodak during my sophomore year. So I was left a little bit floating there for a while, dropped out of the second semester of calculus and the second semester of organic chemistry, because I hated organic chemistry with the, the person that was teaching it at South Dakota State. Anyway, then Dave Chingo, he took me over as an advisee and, and he was actually my master's professor as well. So he was quite influential on me. I had a, a biochemistry professor named John Grove at South Dakota State, who really kind of turned me on to metabolism and, and biochemistry. And I, I credit him really with, with pushing me in the direction that I went. Then for my PhD program at Iowa State, kind of going with Jerry Young and Don Bites and, and getting into more well, nutritional physiology was the name of the degree, and it was certainly more metabolism and physiology oriented than what I did in my, my master's degree. So those are some pretty important people for me.
Scott Sorrell (00:13:32):
Yeah. So I know our panel here view you as a respected mentor as well. And what I'd like to do now is just kind of toss it to those guys to maybe kind of talk about Dr. Jim Drackley as a mentor, and, and, and what, what he meant to you guys coming up through school. Jeff, why don't I start with you?
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:13:56):
Yeah, I was seeing as I was, you know, looking at Tom and Phil and myself, you know, it may be a little bit differently 'cause I see Phil and Tom as researchers, you know, and, and from that standpoint I never enjoyed research. I did it to get to the end. And, you know, sometimes, some days I wasn't sure what that end was, but I knew it wasn't gonna be research. And I, and I think Jim knew that for, I think for two reasons. I was his first student, and so he was getting his, you know, career on path as well. But then also knowing I really didn't wanna do that. I did a lot of applied studies, you know, fat digestibility, feeding fat to cows, not getting into similar, that basic science. So that is one thing I always appreciated. And even if he'd wanted to have made me a researcher, I don't think he could have as, as good as he was.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:15:04):
But the other thing I always really appreciated about Jim was his thoughtfulness when, and I say that in the sense of when you asked him a question, his answer, reply was always had he had thought about it, he had considered it, et cetera. And then my take, my biggest takeaway, I always think of Jim on this, is when I was actually leaving graduate school and I went in, I was standing by his door and and I've told him this once. I'm not sure he even remembers it, but it, it sank heavily with me. I was going to work with my PhD for a company as a PhD consultant, and I was nervous, I was scared that first job, et cetera. And I remember him telling, you know, I said, I just don't know if I know everything. He says, the company you're working with will teach you what you need to know. I taught you how to think critically, and I've never forgotten that. Even when I run into a problem today and now I've got a lot more confidence. But if there's like, man, I'm not sure I know the answer to this. I just think through it critically. And that's, that's my biggest takeaway and what I think of about when I think of Jim as my mentor.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:16:29):
You. So,
Dr. Tom Overton (00:16:30):
Yeah, I'll, you know, so, so again, my master's was more classic ruminant nutrition, right? Starch source and flows of nutrients and intestine digestibility, stuff like that. But I found myself really getting really interested in, in metabolism, right post absorptive metabolism, liver metabolism. And, you know, that's where, you know, clearly one of, one of the Jim's early arms of his program were really in that area. And so the transition cow thing was just getting started. So it was an exciting time and, and just felt like things were wide open in that area. And, and I, I always give Jim a lot of credit because he, he really gave me some latitude during my PhD to kind of figure out where I were, where we wanted to go with some of those, some of that early work, you know, looking at glucose and things like that. And so you know, always, always open as, as Jeff said, always thoughtful you know, et cetera. So I really appreciated that, that opportunity. And, you know, that mentorship obviously continued long after grad school as well.
Scott Sorrell 00:17:36):
Yeah
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:17:39):
Yeah. I think for, for me it was, it started, you know, when we visited the first time, you know, I was not a student yet, and he was talking and say, Hey, you know, I'm very hands off. You know, so that was you know, a very candid warning and say, if you need somebody that stays there with you and is gonna be micromanaging you, that's probably not gonna be me. So he was always upfront about that, and I really liked that. So I was already, while I did my masters, I was already working as a vet with farmers for five years. So I think that as the relationship with somebody that micromanages, I don't think that would work well, you know? So I think that that was very beneficial to me. And I think the same thing as Tom mentioned the PhD was kind of an open canvas.
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:18:28):
There was, you know, like he would say, Hey, there's this project here, let's do, it was a room protected niacin project, but then we delved into other things with the data analysis, collaboration with you know, Stephen LeBlanc in Canada. He was open for me to go there and, you know, just spend some time there. So it was really triggered by you. So I think that's kind of the, the something that I think really worked for me w was that, you know and sometimes, you know, I know that Jeff said, you know, I ask questions, but sometimes, you know, when you ask questions and that silence as well, you start answering the question yourself. I think Jim always allowed for that was not somebody, you do this and then you do that. And this is number one, Number two, I never got that from, from Jim. It was just like, some reflection, think about it. And sometimes you come up with the answers yourself, but he's always there as a safe net, let's say.
Scott Sorrell (00:19:26):
Yeah. Nice story. Dr. Drackley, I'm kind of wondering here, you know, with these three gentlemen on the screen here with you, do you have any good stories about them that you, that you can tell?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:19:41):
Maybe not that I can tell.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:19:46):
No. We had a, we had a lot of fun, and that's the other thing. I was of course, younger, particularly with Jeff that was more of a, a peer age than, than you know, an older mentor, but, and, and with Tom also. So we, we had a lot of fun. We had good, happy hours on, on Friday afternoons, and just they, they always kept me sharp. I like, like they expressed, I kind of a hands off guy, but would, would look forward to the times we met and would talk about data or how the research is going and, and just a pleasure to, to be a colleague of them more than a colleague, more of a mentor, I think. Mm-Hmm
Scott Sorrell (00:20:35):
Yeah. So Jim, I, I, I know you as a, a, a modest man, but what I'd like you to do now is, can, can you talk about what you think some of your major contributions to the industry have been?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:20:48):
Well, I think certainly there's a couple that, that I'm pretty proud of that, that I think have made some difference in the industry. And one of those was kind of developing or expanding the, the, the knowledge of the controlled energy dry cow programs where we would feed typically a, a large amount of straw with corn silage and to help control the, the energy intake we had. We did a lot of work in that area trying to show, you know, why it seemed to work in the field. And, and you know, it's, it's gratifying. I, everywhere I go in the world now, it, it's, at least the principles are, are being applied. So I think that's, that's had some big impact on the industry. And the other area would be the, in the baby calf nutrition, I, and it's gratifying to see, and, and at this point over the last probably 10 years or so, that the amount of milk that's, that's being fed on farms is, is considerably greater now on average than it was when I started in the industry.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:22:01):
And I, I worked pretty hard on that area along with guys like Mike VanAmber at Cornell, and, and it's, it's gratifying to see that practice been, been taken up a lot more than it's, than it was earlier. It was a struggle to get farmers to, to feed more milk. They're always concerned about daily cost, and of course, the returns are not immediate other than better growth early. So it was, it was a, a tough sell for a lot of people to talk them into why they should be feeding more milk. But I think those are, those are two of the, the biggest success stories. As Jeff mentioned, we were doing a lot of, of added fat work in the early years of my career. And I, I think that that had an impact too, but probably not as, as much of a lasting impact as the other two areas.
Scott Sorrell (00:22:57):
Yeah. I'd like to kind of open it up to our panel here for discussions as well. Yeah.
Dr. Tom Overton (00:23:01):
So I, again, I think from a Jim, I mean, from a, clearly from an academic standpoint, I mean, you, you would, you and your group would have the, the credit for the controlled energy approach. I still remember back I think in ‘92 or ‘93 with Dave Grum and, you know, we're feeding a whole boatload of, he was feeding a whole boatload of oat hay. And I just remember all at oat hay at the, I think it was at the round barn and things like that, and a little bit of, what are we doing? This is, this feels a little crazy, right? But it, it's amazing what kind of, kind of, I mean, that was really probably the first control energy diet to some extent, and that's amazing. And what that kind of all led to with, with some of your other students. So,
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:23:44):
You know, the, on the calf side, I remember and I think I was even during my PhD with Jim, and then he would go, you know, all over the, the world giving talks. And this particular time was to Brazil, and then I got some email or, or, you know, some announcement and say, Hey, the guy that wrote the Bible in calf nutrition is coming to Brazil. You cannot lose this opportunity. You know, so his book with Carl Davis, that was the bible of calf nutrition. So that was kind of was kind of interesting to, to, to learn.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:24:19):
Yeah. And that, and that was the same. And you know, I've traveled to China quite a bit. I know several of you have here too. But I'd be talking to, you know, colleagues there, and they'd say, Dr. Drackley’s come into China, and, you know, he's, he's gonna tell us all about transition cows, you know, so of course I would try to feed off of that and say, well, I was his first student. I know a little bit, but yeah, they were always excited when, when Dr. Drackley was, was coming to China, the, the expert in the field.
Scott Sorrell (00:24:54):
Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff, Jeff. Gentlemen. Is there any other contributions that, that perhaps Jim hasn't highlighted that you would highlight?
Dr. Tom Overton (00:25:06):
So, you know, one, I mean, it, it relates to, to some of that Jim highlighted, right? But he wrote this paper back in the late nineties referring to the transition period as the final frontier. And, and that paper was based on his foundation scholar, ADSA award. And that, that paper really laid it out, you know, not only kind of the state of our knowledge, but also, you know, candidly provided a roadmap and, and a roadmap that we're still, you know, I'm looking at the kind of the, the challenges section that he wrote and said you know, some areas which increase understanding is critical include the control of dry matter intake during the period, period, quantification of nutrient supply, interactions among nutrition, metabolism, immune system, metabolic regulation in interactions among different tissues, body condition. I mean, stuff that, you know, we, we've gained a lot, but boy, there's, we're still working on these things. So, and, and, and, you know, there's still still more to do, but you know, again, that, that paper is you know, mandatory reading for any graduate student of mine and, and, and others as well. Right? But, but that paper really kind of was, was quite visionary in terms of how, how Jim, how Jim kind of put that all together. So yeah, I mean, lasting, lasting legacy, lasting impact.
Scott Sorrell (00:26:36):
Yeah.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:26:37):
And then, wasn't it just a few years ago, you kind of did a follow up to that paper, you did a not
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:26:47):
A, not a paper. I think that the, was a Discover conference that maybe that you're thinking of?
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:26:56):
Yeah, it could be. I was just kind, I was thinking it was kind of a, a second part to that, but we were now I shouldn't say second part, more of a follow up, you know, what we've known what we know since then mm-hmm. But yeah, it could have been Discover Conference.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:27:11):
I think that was a Discover conference spot. There's no paper. But yeah, it was kind of fun to look back and, and see where progress has been made and, and some of the areas that we're, we're still struggling with. But yeah, that paper is still being cited frequently, so,
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:27:30):
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:27:33):
I think one of the, if I may say one of the achievements maybe that it's always was greatly appreciated, I, particularly here in the department, was the teaching skills that Jim has. And I think that's, you know it's, it's maybe maze. I remember when I took classes with him, we were still on the you know, blackboard, or not even whiteboard with chalk. And and so the pace and the way that Jim explained was extremely well taught his material. So I think that's some accomplishment that maybe that's also transits to this part of speaking to the whole world. Maybe it's makes it easier for him because he already has so much training and, and established such a rapport with students that he's always regarded grad students, undergrads, you know, on that nutrition class and other classes that he thought. So I think it's a big achievement as well.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:28:36):
Yeah, teaching part of the job was, was the part that scared me the most when I started. Like most of us, we didn't, I didn't have any formal teaching, training or experience, and my first lecture was to the freshman Animal sciences class at two o'clock on a Friday afternoon. It was about 90 degrees outside, and we had a, a non-air conditioned classroom across the street in Mumford Hall, and talk about a humbling experience that was, that was, that was tough. But I, I worked hard at it because it was the part that I was worried the most about and got to really enjoying it as I, I got further along in my career and, and I, I think I was able to be successful, but, but it, it was the area that I, I worked on the most and worried about the most.
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:29:35):
When did, if I may ask you, when did you develop the dance? I'm not sure you wanna perform here, there's a famous dance to explain Peristaltism or something like that. Yeah,
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:29:46):
Peristalsis dance. So I, I just talking about gut motility and so on, and one of the, the, the factors would be peristalsis in the, the lower track. And then you also have these segmented contractions in the small intestine that, that kind of are, are squeezing local areas of the intestine to keep mixing. And at the same time, you're moving things down the tract. So I would, I would do this, this little dance in front of my class to, to show peristalsis and segmented contractions. And it, it got to be quite famous.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:30:27):
And there's gotta be a video of that somewhere. We'll have to find it.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:30:31):
I hope not.
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:30:32):
Yeah, I don't think cell phones were that popular at that time. No,
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:30:35):
No.
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:30:36):
Look,
Dr. Tom Overton (00:30:38):
We'll put it up against Milo Wilbank from Wisconsin, Madison doing his ovulation dance or ululation, apparently. So.
Scott Sorrell (00:30:50):
So Jim, you said you worked hard at being a good teacher. Can you talk a little bit about maybe your style and how you went about it?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:31:00):
Well, my, my style was always to be really organized. I, I, I kind of developed being an outliner, so I would try to, you know, be a, to present things in a, an outline fashion where you could identify the main, main heading or main topic, and then work down through the details. As Phil said, I, I did start writing a lot on the, the chalkboard, and that was again, based on some experiences from people that I considered mentors, that that's the way that I, a way that I learned really well. And the other part that I, I worked hard on was to get to know the students, you know, get to know their names as soon as possible in a semester and, and just try to be approachable and, and empathetic with their, their needs and so on without, you know, without being somebody that they were gonna push around in the, in the classroom.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:32:00):
But yeah, that's, that's kind of how I approached teaching. So I was more of a lecturer in the recent years. I took over the lactation biology course here from Wal Furley and kind of did a flipped classroom idea where I, I had prerecorded modules that, that the students would watch and then would come to class and have discussion on those, or an exercise that's related to it. So that was something I wanted, I always wanted to try and do little things, do, do a little something different or different style. So that was, that was kind of fun to, to do something different in, in the last years of my career.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:32:48):
Hmm. So similar to that I'll give a little background first. So, Tom and I recently came in for your retirement reception, and while we were there, Phil was kind enough to give us a tour of the Animal science laboratory. And especially remember when we walked into Tom's old office area where there, you know, there'd be 3, 4, 5 people, each desk had at least two computers on it. And, and we were thinking when we were there, there was one computer for us to run statistics to run SaaS, and we had to run all the way down across campus to get it. And then you realize you did something wrong, had to run it again and walk back down. But in knowing that, how did instructing the students change over the years, just with the technologies and or maybe instructing them how to do their research? I'd be curious of that.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:33:51):
Well, certainly from a teaching standpoint, when, when PowerPoint came in and, and became popular, you know, just about everything went over to being presented on, on PowerPoint slides. So that was a, a big change in format. But affecting the students, you're, you're right. I I remember when I was running stats on projects back then of having to walk all the way down to the computer science lab to pick up output, you know. And it's, it's just changed so much now where you, you know, you can do statistics in real time and, and make changes on the fly and, and print what you want and, and not print what you don't need. And it has, I think it's increased productivity quite a bit. So I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at, Jeff, but yeah.
Scott Sorrell (00:34:52):
I remember Jeff, back in the day we had these, the overhead projectors, and we'd put these transparencies on there, and you just, and you could write on 'em, or you could have 'em print it out and, and you'd manually have to, you know, the kids are gonna think we're crazy, but yeah, we, you'd manually have to put one down and move it around and take it off, put the next one down. And then when we finally transitioned to slides, right, we had these pre-made slides that we'd load into this carousel, and invariably they'd get jammed and you, you just couldn't change, change your message on the fly. Those are, those are some fun days. Memories. Yeah. The kids won't understand what we're talking about, though.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:35:38):
I, I did my master's degree with punch cards where you sit at a, a, a card puncher and type in the data, and it would, it would make a, a card. So you'd go over to the mainframe computer with a, a big box of cards and leave them and come back the next day and pick up your output. And like Jeff said, if you, you know, if you did something wrong and made one little mistake, you had to do the whole process over again. Find, find the problem hard and replace it. And, and when I got to Iowa State we, we could interact directly with the, the mainframe computers as we called them back then via a computer, you know, a local computer. So that, I thought that was big times.
Scott Sorrell (00:36:27):
Yeah. I remember taking a genetics class where we'd get a, a deck of those cards, those punch cards, right? And each card would represent an animal and their, their genotype. You didn't know what it was. All we knew was their phenotype. And then we, we, I remember having a contest to see which team could, could build the, the, the better herd given those those cards we were selecting. Anyway, crazy times. Good times, actually. Gentlemen, I'd, I'd kinda like to give you guys an opportunity to share some of your, your favorite Jim Drackley stories, if you will, or even stories that went on around the times when you, when you were there with him.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:37:11):
Oh, goodness.
Scott Sorrell (00:37:14):
Put you on the spot, Jeff.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:37:15):
Yeah, it is a little bit. So if I could, if I could change that just a little bit, going back into Jim's teaching abilities and then how he mentored his students. And Phil may have a story here, but I'd kind of like to know how, so Phil, you went from being a student to being on faculty at Illinois and how, and I, if I remember right, kind of Jim kind of helped you through that, took him, took you under his wing a bit. I'd be interested to know, you know, how that went and, and going from being a advisor to a colleague, true colleague.
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:38:03):
Yeah. I think the first thing he told me, oh, now actually, that was after the PhD. And that transition was fairly quick from the PhD to, to starting my position here after Hutchins retired and was oh, now you have to call me Jim. You, you don't have to call me Dr. Drackley anymore. I mean, he never asked. It's
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:38:24):
Hard to do. It's hard to do, isn't it?
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:38:26):
Exactly. That was a very hard thing to do. But it was extremely helpful because, you know you wanna and you have to for tenure purposes to showcase and develop your own program. So he was very clear on kind of say, Hey, you know, this can be your path. This is gonna still be my path, so we don't get mixed here. So it's very easy for everybody in the department to understand what's, what you're doing, what you're not doing. But also, I remember that we would go out with other two faculty for lunch every, I think six months or every year, where I would send them my CV and just get input on, Hey, this is what I'm doing. What do you think? What I should do wrong? Different. And so that was very, very helpful from Jim on that coaching that I think it still happens today. So yeah, I was very lucky to, to be able to have those three things, like where I was a student with Jim, and then, you know, as a colleague and now as a, let's say, coach, advisor, you know, off the job,
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:39:38):
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And that would be one of my, I think if, if I had a regret, it would be that, that after I left the university and got my job, and part of it is you're starting a family, you're starting that new job, you've got new colleagues that you kind of depend on. I don't think I kept that connection with Jim immediately, you know, then in a few years later, it's like, yeah, I need to keep contacting him and meet his students. And, you know, I've got to meet a lot of the students over the years, but it was those first, I don't know, five, eight years. I wish I'd done more of that to have him coach me even then. So, so, so Scott, you're, you're talking stories. So first I've got a question for Jim. I don't know if this was an urban myth or not
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:40:35):
But at one point I thought I'd heard, are you allergic to cows?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:40:42):
I am actually, yeah.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:40:44):
Okay.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:40:45):
Yeah, if I, like, if I have a lot of contact with the skin, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm in a short sleeve, short sleeved arm or something, I'll get a kind of a red rash and also allergic to a straw. So it's kind of a, I guess a, a funny comparison, but Yeah.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:41:08):
Yeah.
Dr. Tom Overton (00:41:09):
Very ironic.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:41:10):
Yeah. Feeding high straw diets to cows. Yeah.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:41:12):
To cows.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:41:16):
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Tom Overton (00:41:17):
So you guys are chasing stories, and I'll admit, I, I'm having trouble recollecting anything truly in particular relative to, to Jim. But just one you know, again, Jeff alluded to his retirement celebration back in October. My wife and I were, were really glad to be able to, to join that re also reunite with our, some of our colleagues from our grad school days and their spouses and things like that. But one thing Katrina and I were recollecting on as we were driving around Champagne was used to occasionally babysit for, for Jim's kids and you know, and, and you know, the, he has three children that are, are now grown. But at the time, you know, they were, they were quite young and, and so we occasionally would, would babysit. And I still remember, you know, one is, is my wife and I realized that, you know, we'd babysit the kids and the kids were great, right?
Dr. Tom Overton (00:42:08):
But we also realized, eh, we're probably not quite ready for kids just yet, which was fine. But the other thing we did is we took them one time to out for pizza, to Monocles, I think it was. And and we loaded them up with caffeine. We're like, they're like, can we get more cherry coke? We're like, sure, yeah, let's keep, and we weren't intentionally doing it, right. We were just kind of having a good time, and they were in a good time. We stopped by the candy machine, like the, where you put a quarter in right. Candy machines and get stuff out. So we got, got stuff there. So we basically completely wrecked his kids and returned them to, to, to return them home then, and went on our merry way. So yeah,
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:42:52):
Returning home's the key statement there. Yeah. I returned them home. Yeah.
Dr. Tom Overton (00:42:56):
So anyway, so that's, that's one one memory we had. Anyways, we were bopping around Champagne now there a couple months ago.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:43:04):
So, I'll
Scott Sorrell (00:43:06):
Jim, any fond memories you'd like to share with us of your time at university?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:43:12):
There's so many. I, you know, every, every cohort of grad students that came along, there's different, different memories. You, you know, it, it's, that's, that's the most satisfying part of my career, I think, is to look back on all the, the great grad students that I had and see how successful they've become, you know, on their own. And just the, the research being involved with the research that they were doing and, and yeah, the, just the whole experience of being a a university professor has been a, been a great career. I you know, the, the chance to go around the world and talk about cows is, is really something when you think about it. I, my middle son had a good friend, and they were kids. One time my, my son was trying to explain to his friend what his dad did, and the, the friend looked at him kind of incredulously and said, you mean your dad gets to travel over the world and talk about cows
Scott Sorrell (00:44:45):
Yeah. Well, I've enjoyed looking back at the past, but I'd like to maybe transition just a little bit and, and kind of take a look into the future, you know, the future of the dairy industry. And, and, and from your perspective, what are some of the pressing issues in the dairy industry that we're gonna need to tackle the, your students that, that, that, that you've developed? What are some of the challenges or challenges they're gonna have to, to tackle?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:45:16):
Right. I think the, the environmental aspects are, are just going to continue to become more and more important both the, just the excretion of, of nitrogen phosphorus, but also the, the greenhouse gas issues over the next few years. I think, you know, if you look at where we are in the industry right now, versus even 10 to 15 years ago, that that progress has just been tremendous and got, got herds producing incredible amounts of milk every day with, with incredible components and good reproduction. So I, I think that, you know, a lot of things that a number of us here have worked on over the years have, have really reached the industry and, and the industry is, is pretty remarkable at, at present. So I, I think there's gonna be increasing economic pressures on farms. So I, I don't think the, the issues of improving efficiency and so on will ever go away. Those will be, those will be important areas to try to improve forage production and, and efficiency of, of nutrient use, both for growth and, and lactation. So I, I think a, you know, a lot of what we're doing today and, and maybe just different pressures and different, different urgencies.
Scott Sorrell (00:46:52):
Well, Jim, with that what kind of advice would you give to young researchers or even students that are looking to going into research?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:47:06):
I think you, you've gotta, you've gotta carve out a, a niche, a niche for yourself. You know, it, it's sometimes can seem daunting to find a, a project area to work on. I remember as a young researcher, probably in the first three or four years of my career being at ADSA meetings with Mike Van DeHart. He was a, an old classmate of mine at Iowa State, and both of us just kind of commiserating with one another that we just didn't think what we were doing made a difference. And, and, you know, looking at all this research put out by other people and, and people that we considered to be the, you know, the gods of, of dairy nutrition, and how can we ever compete with that, and what are we doing? And
Scott Sorrell (00:48:44):
So that's an interesting comment about finding your niche, right? And, and you actually found a couple niches as you were coming up in, in transition cow and then calves. How, how did you go about doing that? Was that in something you did intentionally or was it kind of serendipitous?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:49:01):
Couple of both of those. I think my interest in the transition area grew out of my PhD work where I was looking at fatty liver and ketosis. And so as the, the whole idea of the transition period was being developed that was in natural to just keep going in that area. The, the high straw area was really came from guys like Gordie Jones and, and just in, there's a lot of, of suspicion in the industry or, or not, not convinced that that was a good approach to go to. So we, we dabbled in that a little bit at first. And based on the, the work that Tom mentioned earlier and from Dave Brown's studies so it was, it was an area that kind of logically fell into place, I guess, based on, on work of Jones and Pete Drummond, a couple of, of vets that were doing the process in the industry.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:50:09):
The calf area was more serendipity. I, I had never paid much attention to calves. I didn't like working with calves when I was a kid on the farm. But when I got to Illinois shortly after that, I, I got involved through Carl Davis with, with one of the marketplace or manufacturing companies, and did a couple projects of literature
Scott Sorrell (00:51:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. Gentlemen, this has been a, a, a, an enjoyable conversation. I've really enjoyed this this evening. You know, they've just flickered the lights that signals that it is last call. And what I'd like to do is just kind of step back, go around the room and give you guys one last time to, to salute Dr. Drackley and and his accomplishments. Jeff, would you mind starting us off?
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Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:52:22):
Sure. No, I very, very much appreciate you allowing me to work with you early on, and you starting your career. I, me not having any clue what I wanted to do. And but it's, it's really started the mold of, of my career and got me to go into some places I never dreamt I would travel to and, and doing things I never thought I would do two things. Again, when I, I always, when I get those hard questions, I always think about, just think critically and have a thoughtful response and that, that always clicks in. But while we were talking, one other thing, and you'll pop into my head at times, is when I'm writing we didn't cover this, but Jim was very meticulous in his writing and his, and the grammar. And if I remember right, your mother was an English teacher.
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:53:26):
My father was an English teacher, but my mother was, was also a grade school teacher.
Dr. Jeff Elliott (00:53:31):
Yeah. And so, where we place the adverb was very important in our sentence. And it's still funny. I'll be writing, I'll think now, where's that adverb go? And, and I think about, actually, I guess I think about Jim's dad and didn't even know him, but it just clicks in my mind. So, but for everything, yes. Yeah. Thank you Jim.
Dr. Tom Overton (00:54:01):
And I'll, I'll second that. Jim. You know, I just, again, thank you for the opportunity you provided me as a graduate student and, and and you know, all the mentorship there, as well as putting up with some of my insecurities as I was trying to get established as a young assistant professor, you know, kind of figure out how to carve my own niche and again, appreciate all the, the friendship over time. So, cheers.
Dr. Phil Cardoso (00:54:31):
Yeah, same here. This I'm very thankful, you know, to get a somebody from a box, you know, with no face. I don't think we sent pictures at that time, so
Scott Sorrell (00:55:35):
Yeah. Thank you, Phil. Cheers. Yeah. And Dr. Drackley, any, any final thoughts for us?
Dr. Jim Drackley (00:55:43):
Well, I'd like to thank you for an invitation to do this podcast, and, and I feel very honored to to be a part of it. I, as I said before, it's been a great career. I've, I've had so many good experiences that, not all, not all good experiences, of course, there's been some challenges, but the University of Illinois is a, a great place full of really curious people that are, are anxious to collaborate. And so it's, it's been a, a wonderful career, and I, you know, I'm looking forward to staying involved with the industry through my, at least the, the early part of my retirement. So I'm not, not going away. I just gimme a little different role for the next the next several years.
Scott Sorrell (00:56:35):
Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for joining us here at the pub. I also wanna thank Tom and Jeff and Phil for joining us as well. We, we, we just appreciate you. We appreciate your legacy. We appreciate what you've done for the industry. And again, thank you for joining us here tonight. And, and thank you to our loyal listeners for joining us as well. We hope you learned something. We hope you had some fun, and we hope to see you next time here at the Real Science Exchange, where it's always happy hour and you're always among friends.
Symposium Plug (00:57:06):
Hello, everybody. My name is Jose Santos. I'm a professor in the Department of Animal Sciences, and I want to take this opportunity to invite everybody to come to Gainesville next month to attend the Florida Ruminant Nutrition Symposium on February 24th to 26 2025. So we've prepared the an excellent program with the help of Balam Purdue Agribusiness and other sponsors that will be probably very enlightened in terms of content networking and other opportunities. In this particular slide here, you have two links that can take you to our registration website either to the symposium website or to the registration itself. As part of our program for the 2025 event, we have a mini-symposium, traditionally that's been sponsored by balam. So we are bringing Dr. Tara Felix from Penn State University, Dr.
Symposium Plug (00:58:21):
Brett Johnson from Texas Tech Dr. Albert Re here from the University of Florida, and Dr. Tom Overton from Cornell University. They are gonna dive in and spend the entire afternoon discussing multiple aspects of beef on dairy carcass composition management aspects relative to the performance of those animals and feedlot the economics of beef found dairy, as well as transition cow management, in particular, the dairy cow, the transition dairy cow. So following the Balkam Mini Symposium, we have a traditional Brazilian what we call s hasco or our saddo for those friends from the south, or a barbecue that you're gonna be delighted to attend. And the following day, on Tuesday, we have a packet day with the morning being sponsored by Purdue Agribusiness with a major focus on room and metabolism and animal health.
Symposium Plug (00:59:35):
We have Dr. Jeff Firkins from the Ohio State University discussing aspects of room fermentation. Dr. Dakkar v here from the University of Florida, and Dr. Alex Bach is from Spain. And Dr. Lenz Bogar from Iowa State University. So the home morning will be taken by those four speakers with a lot of discussion followed by lunch. And then we have a full afternoon plan for that Tuesday, February 25th. So in the program of Tuesday afternoon, we have this lineup of speakers here on top. And for Wednesday morning, we have this other lineup of speakers here at the bottom. So, Dr. Bob Cousins, who is an expert on zinc metabolism and zinc transport will start our afternoon program followed by Dr. Dave Frazier from the University of Sydney, College of Veterinary Medicine in Australia. And we're gonna finish our first session of the afternoon with Dr.
Symposium Plug (01:00:44):
Jerry Spear. So the whole goal of this first session in the afternoon is to really target and focus on mineral metabolism. Dr. Cousins will discuss zinc. Dr. Fraser will focus on calcium. And then Dr. Spears will talk about different sources of trace minerals for ruminants. So we'll have a break followed by three other speakers who will focus primarily on manipulations of the early calf and impacts on lifetimes. So Jim, directly, Dr. Jim directly from the University of Illinois will talk about the nutrient requirements of the Prew Gary Heifer, followed by Dr. Javier Martin Tereso from trial nutrition in the Netherlands. He is gonna discuss experiments in which they manipulated the diet during the Prew period and what impact that has on lifetime productivity. And then we have our own PhD student here, SGE, who works under the mentorship of Dr.
Symposium Plug (01:01:55):
Pete Hanson, who's been doing experiments, looks at manipulation of the medium in which ember develops early on and what impact that has on the offspring. He's also conducted experiments in which he strategically supplemented methyl donors, such as room-protected choline looking at potential impacts on offspring development in beef and dairy cattle. On the following day, we had a mixture of presentations, fo presentations, focusing on newer methods to understand RU fermentation using the breadth of cows, which is what Dr. Muan from Switzerland was gonna discuss with us. So they have new technologies that can be used that are not invasive to evaluate RUMINAL fermentation. Then Dr. John Kisser will talk about new methods to evaluate forestage quality and how that can play a role in diet formulation for dairy cattle. Our own LAIs Lima who is a PhD student under the mentorship of Dr.
Symposium Plug (01:03:11):
Dakkar vs. Will talks about the experiment she's done looking at the nutrient cycle on a farm focusing primarily on nitrogen, but also other nutrients. And then we have, again, Dr. Brad Johnson, and Dr. Tara Felix, who will complete the program on that Wednesday, discussing the impacts of beef on dairy. On the cow itself, the cow that carries that calf. That will be some of what Dr. Tara Felix will discuss. So now going back to beef on dairy implications to the dairy cow. Dr. Brad Johnson will discuss aspects of tissue deposition, adi, and muscle deposition in animals relative to interventions with beef on dairy. So we believe we have an attractive program with a lot of interesting information. Don't be shy to go to our website and check our program and opportunities to come and attend the conference. So I hope that you'll come to Gainesville, particularly if you're from the northern states of the US or Canada or other places. Come here to get a few days of collegiality defrost. Some will be warm, hopefully here in Gainesville, and enjoy this extension program. So I thank you and I hope to see you all here in Gainesville next February.
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