Guests: Dr. TJ Gaydos, Gaydos Technical Services, and Andy Flickinger, Broiler Manager at Miller Poultry In today’s podcast we are focusing on the costs and implications of poultry diseases and practical ways to reduce antibiotic resistance with Dr. TJ Gaydos and Andy Flickinger.
In today’s podcast we are focusing on the costs and implications of poultry diseases and practical ways to reduce antibiotic resistance with Dr. TJ Gaydos and Andy Flickinger.
Dr. Gaydos said that in the poultry industry, disease prevention through vaccines is the focus for birds' health, rather than the treatment of illnesses. (15:39)
Andy mentioned that litter amendments, specifically PLT, is a mainstay at their operation on the non-organic side. PLT acidifies the litter and is used for ammonia and pathogen control. On the organic side however, there are fewer options available. (22:06)
Dr. Gaydos said that intestinal health in general is an issue in the poultry industry and toxicosis is a part of that. Infectious bronchitis virus is a concern everywhere as well as blackhead disease, so the industry is always working to improve those situations. (27:34)
Dr. Gaydos wrapped up by saying a lot of genetic research is being done to help with disease resistance and how that relates to performance in the industry, and will continue to be a focus for years to come. (34:56)
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Scott Sorrell (00:07):
Good evening everyone. And welcome to the real science exchange. At the pub, we're leading scientists and industry professionals. Meet over a few drinks to discuss the latest ideas in trends in animal nutrition. Hi, I'm Scott one of your hosts here tonight at the real science exchange, we'll be focusing on poultry diseases, the costs, and implications. We'll also look at new ways to manage the disease as the industry moves toward reducing antibiotic use. We have two special guests joining us at the table tonight first, Dr. TJ Gatos welcome, uh, TJ to the real science exchange.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (00:40):
Thank you.
Scott Sorrell (00:42):
Uh, Dr. Gatos joined us for the real science lecture series back in February, to talk more specifically about Cox acidosis and the implications of that disease tonight, we'll, uh, continue our discussions on Cox OSIS, but we'll also venture a little further to include other diseases such as HPA AI, as well as how the industry is evolving to address consumer preferences and production challenges. Before we dive in, uh, TJ what's near glass tonight. And, uh, are there any stories behind how you chose that?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (01:11):
Uh, yeah, I'm drinking Woodford reserve, uh, tonight, and it's an extra, extra mini that I got on an airplane yesterday.
Scott Sorrell (01:20):
Oh, okay.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (01:36):
Yeah. Um, the guest, tonight is Andy and he is the, uh, boiler manager at Miller poultry. Uh, Miller poultry is one of the accounts that I work, uh, for as a poultry veterinarian. Uh, we've worked together for a little over a year now.
Scott Sorrell (01:50):
Oh, very well. So welcome Andy to the real science exchange. Uh, also I understand that, uh, you're still, you're, you're working late tonight, so you're not drinking. So, what will you be having after work tonight?
Andy Flickinger (02:04):
Sure. Yeah, not yet, but after work, uh, I'm simple. A cold beer is always good.
Scott Sorrell (02:09):
Yeah. Excellent. Always a good choice. Um, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and then what can you tell us about, uh, Miller poultry?
Andy Flickinger (02:18):
Sure. Um, yeah, I appreciate you guys having me with you and Dr. Gatos. We, as you said, worked together for the last year or so. Um, personally my background, I don't have a poultry background. Um, I went to school for business. However, I, um, I grew up around agriculture, not specifically poultry, but um, my parents and grandparents raised crops always grew up in a, a rural area. And you know, after college, after a few different stops, I, I kind of fell into this role, um, at Miller poultry as a service technician and enjoyed it, um, really enjoyed working with, um, our contracted growers, working, you know, with chickens and learning about them since I didn't have a background with it. And that was just about six years ago. And about three years ago I was promoted to the broiler manager. And um, it's been good ever since, um, a little bit about Miller poultry, I guess we are, we're not a big company, but we're not a small company by any means.
Andy Flickinger (03:16):
Um, we process under a million birds a week. Um, I think if you look in the United States listings, we're like the 24th, 25th largest company for poultry. Um, we kind of a niche market. We cater to, antibiotic-free and organic chicken. So all of our chicken is antibiotic free with about 25% of our production being organically raised. Um, so that's, another layer into raising birds that we've all learned. Um, we are a vertically integrated company, which means we have our hatchery, our feed mills processing plant, um, even grain facilities that we, we get us, our ingredients from for our feed. So, um, yeah, that's just a, a brief kind of outline about Miller poultry
Scott Sorrell (04:04):
And I understand you're in Indiana. What part of Indiana is that in? Is that in the the the Eastern side of Northeast?
Andy Flickinger (04:10):
Um, we're in the north-central, so we're right under the Michigan line. We're that far north. Um, we have production facilities in Michigan as well. Um, both broiler and, um, Broer breeder farms are in Michigan. Um, almost 50% of our production does come from Michigan on the broiler side. Um, so, um, that's kind of, um, uh, a unique thing for us crossing state lines. However, our headquarters processing facility is in Orland, Indiana, which is towards Ohio a little bit. Um, that would be kind of the Northeast part of the state.
Scott Sorrell (04:43):
Okay. And did you go to school? I, you said you got a business degree where's, what's your pedigree there?
Andy Flickinger (04:48):
Sure. Um, well I bounced around a little bit. I started school, in Indiana. Um, I went to the University of Southern Indiana for a couple of years and transferred to, uh, the University of Southern Mississippi where I got my bachelor's degree in business administration. Um, my emphasis was small business entrepreneurship, so I always wanted to kind of work for myself or on a small business level. And this has kind of fit because just the, one of them the first entrepreneurship jobs was farming. Right. So, uh, that kind of fit into my background and, um, we kind of have a small business feel here, here at Miller poultry, especially on the live side.
Scott Sorrell (05:28):
Hmm, excellent. Well, it's a pleasure meeting you, Andy, and look forward to our conversation tonight. Uh, we also have Dr. Zach Loman back with us tonight, once again. Uh, Zach, what are you drinking tonight? What's in your glass, ah, am drinking diet Coke at the moment, diet Coke. I see. Yep. Been busy. All right. Very well. Well, I, uh, I, I went with something a little different. I usually have a bourbon I went with, uh, Jemison's uh, I don't know about you guys, but we've got a bourbon shortage here in, uh, Northeast, Pennsylvania. I go to the state store and there's nothing on the shelf. S'veI've, they've been advertising Jamisons on the TV and I saw that I guess I I'm slaved to, to, to marketing and advertising. So I picked it up. It's pretty good. I would recommend it. So anyway, TJ, um, we got to know you a little bit on, on the webinar, um, back in February, give us a little bit of background about yourself and a little bit about your practice.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (06:23):
Yeah. So originally I'm from Ohio, uh, currently live in Dallas, Texas. Uh, well, Poulter veterinarian. That's why I'm here, I guess. Um, did my undergrad at Ken state and I did my veterinary school at the Ohio state university from there. I went and did an, uh, master's of AVN medicine at the University of Georgia. Uh, from there, I worked at a couple of different companies in the industry and about three years ago, I left working in the corporate world and decided to branch out on my own and start my veterinary practice, uh, work in a variety of areas. Um, do technical support for some of the large, uh, allied companies. In addition, I work, uh, as a clinical veterinarian, uh, for several integrators. Uh, one of which is Miller poultry, uh, just expanded, uh, my practice and hired a new veterinarian, uh, recent graduate Sabrina Hurst. Uh, so she lives in Georgia and the Athens area and she's gonna be helping, uh, with accounts out east.
Scott Sorrell (07:26):
Um, excellent. Well, welcome. Uh, welcome to the exchange. Glad to have you here tonight, um, to start us off, what are some of the biggest challenges that we're seeing in the poultry industry today? I think I know the answer to that, but, uh, we'll tee that up for you.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (07:40):
Yeah. I think one of the biggest issues that we're having right now, Isen influenza, uh, you know, at the time of recording, we've lost about 39 million birds to the disease, uh, this year. Um, certainly not as many birds so far as the out the previous outbreak in 2015, but it's, uh, it's, it's a pretty bad outbreak. Um, you know, in addition to the loss of birds and, uh, birds into the loss of birds into the market, you know, it's, uh, the amount of paperwork that goes along with having birds, uh, and creating a control zone, uh, has been a burden on the companies. For sure. Andy could probably talk a little bit more about that. Uh,
Scott Sorrell (08:25):
Yeah. Andy, why don't you tell us, uh, what, what, what you guys have been dealing with there, or have you been able to avoid it so far?
Andy Flickinger (08:31):
Sure. Yeah, as TJ said, it's all over, um, and it's hit closer to home than it has previously. I wasn't with the company in 2015, but talking with some folks that were, um, it is closer to us. We, um, have been part of a control zone, um, has not affected Miller poultry firsthand, but the amount of, you know, um, paperwork, hurdles, routine changes, logistics that has, that has turned our, you know, our world upside down significantly the last month, five, six weeks. Um, just, just from the logistics side of things, everything is, needs to be documented, sealed, signed, and approved, um, for any kind of a movement of birds. And that's, that's the main thing that I do here at Miller poultry is I scheduled the chicks going into farms and the birds going out of farms. Um, so there's, there was a lot of limitations put on. Um, but, our team responded well. Um, they jumped right in and it was a Testament to our team really how, how quickly they adapted and it's just kind of a new normal, um, and we're dealing with it and, and watching it close. So that's, that's kind of where we're at currently.
Scott Sorrell (09:43):
Do you have some of it in the neighborhood or in, in the area mm-hmm,
Andy Flickinger (09:46):
Scott Sorrell (09:49):
Okay. I think, uh, Zach and I was talking earlier that, um, the way it's spreading is, is, is a little bit different than perhaps it has in the past. Can, can any of you guys expound on that just a bit?
Andy Flickinger (10:05):
I don't know. The go-ahead, DJ.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (10:07):
Andy Flickinger (10:50):
Hmm.
Dr. Zach Loman (10:51):
TJ, why do you think it's kind of like all over now instead of just being in certain little areas on certain flyways?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (10:59):
That's a great question. I wish I knew the answer to that. Uh, but you know, for whatever reason, you know, it, it spread into, you know, it's mostly in the central flyway for sure. And the Atlantic flyway has a large number of certainly wild birds positives. But you know, we've been really lucky as an industry and, the Eastern and Atlantic flyways have had far less, uh, commercial cases than the central flyway. And you know, I think a lot of it is just bad luck. You certainly biosecurity and attention to detail are, is important. But I think a lot of it plays down to bad luck or good luck as the cmay maybe.
Scott Sorrell (11:39):
Hmm. Zach was telling me this is a, uh, more pathogenic than perhaps, um, what we've had in the past. Um, what do we know about that? Um, and, and, and where did it originate and when,
Dr. TJ Gaydos (11:52):
Oh, we don't know for certain, if it's more pathogenic, I feel the same way. It feels that way, but they're currently testing these strains at some of the labs in us and you know, hopefully, we should have an answer pretty soon to exactly how pathogenic this virus is, uh, where it came from. It's a great question, uh, exactly where it came from. We don't know this strain, the H five N one is the U Asian strain. Uh, it seems to be very similar to, or the same as the strain that's been PLA in Europe for the last year or so. Uh, so you know, it's a U Asian lineage, but where it came from, uh, I don't personally don't know someone, one of the ologists might know
Scott Sorrell (12:36):
Dr. TJ Gaydos (12:47):
Um, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I, I hope not.
Dr. Zach Loman (12:51):
We hope not.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (12:52):
Yeah. We hope not.
Scott Sorrell (12:53):
Yeah, very well. Um, so TJ, you get a call from one of your, one of your producers. They've got a problem with it. Um, what kind of advice do you do? What's the first thing, uh, that you do for 'em
Dr. TJ Gaydos (13:08):
Call the government.
Scott Sorrell (13:10):
Okay.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (13:11):
And they lock down all movement until, you know, for sure. Okay. The last thing you wanna do is spread it around.
Scott Sorrell (13:17):
Yeah. And not much you can do then.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (13:20):
Yeah.
Scott Sorrell (13:21):
Yeah.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (13:22):
And anything you'd like to add to that,
Andy Flickinger (13:24):
That's about exactly how it happened. You know, we're, we're pretty close with the state of Indiana, state of Michigan. Um, and that's exactly, that's exactly how it went. You know, this was a, you know, there were turkeys in Southern Indiana backyard flock here and there. Um, so yeah, that we stayed in pretty good communication. The state of Indiana does a good job, of letting its producers know where and what's happening. Um, and then working together with us to outline a plan. But yeah, when it was close to us, we locked everything down kind of assessed where we were, and then started going through the necessary procedures just so we can continue the business. You know, we still have chicken to send to customers. So, um, going about doing that change, but you know, that's the end goal at the end of the day, we gotta get chicken to our stores. So
Scott Sorrell (14:14):
Mm-hmm,
Dr. Zach Loman (14:14):
Dr. TJ Gaydos (14:23):
Uh, no, I don't know exactly off the top of my head. Uh, so edit that out, but, um,
Andy Flickinger (15:10):
From our understanding. The last couple of positives in our area were just through routine testing. Um, birds weren't necessarily showing signs right away. Um, but eventually we're leading to there.
Scott Sorrell (15:22):
Um, well, let's, um, transition then, uh, TJ, when you're not, um, consulting on AVN influenza, what other, uh, kinds of, uh, calls and consulting do you do for your, your, uh, customers?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (15:39):
Yeah, one of the majority of the business is, you know, working on vaccine programs, uh, biosecurity programs, it's a, a lot of the business is a program based because we don't certainly in the antibiotic-free production realm. There's not a lot of treatment that can be done. Uh, so its Poul production, in general, is mostly about the prevention of disease. So we're always working, to optimize those, uh, the production of those birds through prevention and not, uh, necessarily treatment of disease. Uh, of course, I'm working with them, with it, with customers to help production, improve performance, uh, improve animal welfare, uh, food safety-related, uh, concerns as well, reduction of salmonella working in the processing plant, uh, things like that.
Andy Flickinger (16:27):
Absolutely.
Scott Sorrell (16:28):
Okay. You mentioned, uh, antibiotic-free. Uh, Andy, I think you said, um, you're antibiotic-free. How long has, the operation been, uh, antibiotic-free. And, and was there a process that you guys went through to, uh, transfer to that?
Andy Flickinger (16:43):
Not exactly sure how long, um, during my whole time, for sure. Um, I know there was a process going from antibiotic, you know, conventional to antibiotic-free. Um, similar, we were, um, previously a non-GMO company as well, and that was also a process. Um, we currently use conventional grain again. Um, but yeah, we're, we're a hundred percent antibiotic-free now. It kind of makes my life a little easier knowing that we don't have two different lines to compete with, or, you know, as soon as something goes wrong, we have, uh, you know, easy fix where we rely a lot more on, like TJ was saying good management, you know, attention to details and prevention. Um, and that, and that's how I like it to tell you the truth. I like to, uh, work with our grower based on, you know, good management practices, good animal husbandry. So then we don't have to rely on, um, you know, outside antibiotics or any kind of medication or treatment. Um, there's nothing wrong with, you know, a lot of water feed and good flowing air. I think that can cure a lot of things.
Scott Sorrell (17:52):
Mm-hmm
Andy Flickinger (18:00):
Here? We do. Um, yep. So, you know, we do have a company nutritionist that works with TJ and the production staff, on different probiotics and prebiotics. Um, we've tried several things, different essential oils or Regno things like that as well, that can be used in organic production. Um, and yeah, just finding the right recipe, quote recipe to, to have a good performing bird. Um, so yeah, we've worked in, in, and out of those areas for sure.
Scott Sorrell (18:27):
Yeah. So how do you find that right recipe,
Andy Flickinger (18:30):
Trial and error, trial
Scott Sorrell (18:31):
And error
Andy Flickinger (18:32):
Scott Sorrell (18:54):
Yeah. TJ when, uh, when you come onto a farm antibiotic-free and, uh, they're having a bit of a challenge with Cox costs, what's, what's the first thing you reach for, um, uh, outta your bag too, to help, uh, treat it?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (19:09):
Yeah. The first thing that I reached for is we talk about management. Uh, if they're having a, a significant issue with OSIS, you know, there are a few different things that we can use that you can, acidify the water you can use acidified copper sulfate, uh, you can use Sapin, uh, and different essential oils as, um, type products as well. Um, but it's all about, uh, working with a grower to help, uh, reduce, the impact of OSIS on those birds. It's about managing the life cycle, of the parasite.
Scott Sorrell (19:44):
Talk a little bit about, uh, your opinion of, and use of vaccines. Is that something you employ quite often?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (19:52):
All every bird,
Scott Sorrell (19:53):
Every bird. Okay.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (19:56):
Lots of vaccines.
Scott Sorrell (19:58):
Okay. Now I recall from your, uh, webinar that there are, there's a bunch of different Coxy strains out there, but do the, uh, vaccines work on all of them or, or are they very specific to the strain?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (20:14):
Uh, they're specific to the species of, Coxid, uh, there are three major, uh, Coxid species that affect broilers. Uh, Ameri Aina Ameria Maxima and IMY Pinella. Also, I Myriam, uh, it plays a role, but the ones that we're concerned about are Maxima and 10, uh, both of those can, uh, can damage chickens and Maxima is really important for feed conversion and efficiency.
Scott Sorrell (20:43):
And can they have both of those at the same time
Dr. TJ Gaydos (20:46):
They can.
Scott Sorrell (20:47):
Okay. Very well. Well, yeah, one thing I was, uh, wanting to kind of know, is, are there geographic differences in terms of where you find these different species?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (21:00):
No, there's not a geographic difference in the species. Uh, there is, uh, one part of the life cycle of the species is outside of the bird. So when the bird, uh, defecates those OSIS, they're not infectious, they have to, uh, sporulate in the litter. And that spoilation process requires, uh, temperature, humidity, and oxygen. And so the easiest thing to control in the litter is the humidity. So, you know, depending on where you're at geographically, it can be really difficult to have enough moisture in the litter, to complete that life cycle. You know, if you're growing chickens in the desert, for example, it can be pretty hard, uh, or if you're in the Northern United States and you're using a lot of supplemental heat, uh, in the wintertime, uh, that can dry your litter out and make, uh, make OSIS cycling, uh, really difficult
Dr. Zach Loman (21:56):
Jose, did they make, uh, many litter amendments that you can put in to make it a less, uh, ideal environment?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (22:04):
And you can take that one if you want.
Andy Flickinger (22:06):
Sure. Yeah. You know, we use, um, litter amendments here at Miller poultry. Um, PLT is, is the mainstay that, and a lot of poultry integrators from my understanding, which acidifies the litter, um, you know, it's more for ammonia control, um, and you know, pathogen control. So we do use, you know, a PLT and acidification on the organic side of things. It's a different story. There are even fewer tools in our toolbox is what we like to say. Um, so different microbial, um, techniques can use, they're not super effective, um, as most organic product products are. Um, but it's something that we can still use, to try to minimize pathogens, ammonia, things like that. Yeah.
Scott Sorrell (22:56):
I'm curious, Andy, um, you're, you guys said that you wenon-GMOGMO at one time, and then you switched away from that. What caused you to do that?
Andy Flickinger (23:06):
Um, a lot of that I believe came from the sales side of things as more and more products out there has he, the non-GMO label. It became more diluted. I feel, um, there was less desire from the customer base for a non-GMO. You know, there were some cost differences between a non-GMO grain and a GMO grain. Um, however, I think at the end of the day it was, it was demand. We weren't getting asked by our, end consumer to keep producing non-GMO. It wasn't, it wasn't a selling factor. Like maybe it was, you know, five, 10 years ago.
Scott Sorrell (23:42):
Okay. And do you still see the, um, antibiotic-free and the organic, is that market still growing and strong for you guys?
Andy Flickinger (23:50):
For sure. Um, seems like TJ might have better statistics, but it seems like over half of the chicken out there anymore has antibiotic-free claims or at least some kind of line. Um, from our side of things, we do see an increase on the organic side too. Um, I think more and more people do wanna know where their food comes from and that's all part of it, you know, being transparent through, through marketing, through social media, whatever it is they want to know what's how their chickens being raised and how it's being taken care of. So from animal welfare to, you know, organic or antibiotic-free movements, they're all, they're all factors in this.
Scott Sorrell (24:30):
Mm-hmm
Andy Flickinger (24:39):
Sure. Yeah. Try
Scott Sorrell (24:40):
To stay ahead
Andy Flickinger (24:40):
Of it. I know we try to stay ahead of it for sure. And I think, I think Miller poultry was, uh, in a great position to start with because they started antibiotic-free. I wanna say in the nineties, um, when it wasn't necessarily a big trend, um, we worked with customers like whole foods from the beginning and, um, that has helped our business grow for sure. Okay. So staying on top of those trends and, you know, continuing to listen to our customer base, whether it's animal welfare standards, um, different, um, certifications or requirements, we always try to stay on the, you know, the cutting edge, um, of those things.
Scott Sorrell (25:19):
So your all your, uh, birds go to whole foods,
Andy Flickinger (25:22):
Not all of them. Nope. Um, they are one of our customers, um, Miller poultry, typically in retail stores, um, grocery stores in the Midwest, but as far as the Rocky Mountain region to the Southeast, um, you can find our chicken throughout, throughout the country.
Scott Sorrell (25:38):
Mm-hmm
Dr. TJ Gaydos (25:52):
Yeah, I think, uh, antibiotic-free, we're gonna continue, uh, producing more and more birds without antibiotics, uh, in us and, and certainly globally, uh, organic production. I think there'll be an increase in that as well. Uh, but there's only a certain percentage of the population that, uh, that wants to, or feels the need or sees the advantage of, of buying organic, uh, chicken or produce. Uh, I don't know that that's necessary for everyone. So I'm sure that there is a limit somewhere to how much organic production, uh, can be sold in the marketplace.
Dr. Zach Loman (26:29):
So with all the supply chain, shortages and issues, do you, uh, see an increase or decrease or no change, in your product?
Andy Flickinger (26:38):
Um, we've seen changes for sure. You know, it's affected, everybody. It's, it's not specific user us in the poultry industry or Miller poultry, um, anything from feed ingredients being hung up, um, on a boat somewhere, um, waiting to get, to get processed too, you know, fuel and inflation and things like that. So, um, yes, it's caused changes for us. However, we try to, um, here at Miller VRO, we try to make sure that we're continuing to put out a good quality product and that that's really what we're all about is, uh, a top-quality product.
Scott Sorrell (27:17):
All right. Any other topics guys that we need to dig into?
Dr. Zach Loman (27:24):
Uh, what other challenges do you have besides, um, just Coxy or is that your main one?
Andy Flickinger (27:32):
Um,
Dr. TJ Gaydos (27:34):
Yeah, I think, you know, generally, in the industry, you know, intestinal health as a whole is a problem Coxid OSIS is always a part of that. Uh, OSIS control is, is really, entwined with broiler production. Um, because those SS, those organisms are everywhere. You know, uh, bronchitis, uh, virus, infectious bronchitis virus is, is a problem in certain what it's a concern everywhere, but certain strains are, uh, more pathogenic and causing issues in different parts of the country right now. So we're working with that, uh, pretty frequently, you know, blackhead disease, uh, is a problem, uh, constantly working on that on longer live birds, like Pulitzer and breeders. Um, that's, also another pretty constant challenge.
Scott Sorrell (28:25):
Is it even possible to eradicate toxicosis at all?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (28:29):
No.
Scott Sorrell (28:30):
No, it's not. It's not, it's just, it's just ubiquitous in the environment.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (28:34):
Yes.
Scott Sorrell (28:35):
Yeah. All right. Um, what do you guys think is the next big thing in the poultry, uh, industry? What's the future starting to look like what's, what's gonna be the next big trend. Is it something that we don't even expect or we see in hints?
Andy Flickinger (28:53):
I'm not sure exactly. You know, what we see on stateside is, um, animal welfare continues to be a major topic of not necessarily a concern, but intrigue. Um, like I said, previously, a lot of, a lot of people want to know where their chicken's coming from these days, what they're eating. Um, so being more visible, um, more transparent. I can see that continuing, um, you know, there's gonna be more technology, better technology out there to try to be more efficient, but sometimes it seems like we take a step back where animal welfare, um, animal welfare concerns wants you to go back and, and grow a chicken slower, or, you know, raise it outside on a pasture and things like that. Um, where maybe it's not the most economical or the most efficient, um, seems like there are more customer demands for it. And I can see that continuing.
Scott Sorrell (29:46):
So you say they want transparency, how do we do that? And they wanna know what they're being fed. Um, do you put that on a website, or, what are some of the things you guys are doing to be more transparent to CU consumers?
Andy Flickinger (30:00):
Sure. Yeah. We hit all that. You know, we, we try to market our product that way through, through websites, social media. Um, we work with an, outside third-party agency for the animal welfare gap, a global animal partnership. Um, which also is, is, um, sending out those messages. Um, it wasn't that way probably 10, 15 years ago where people either cared that much or companies were that transparent, but there's a call for it. And we get a lot of, you know, customer comments about wanting to know more.
Scott Sorrell (30:33):
Yeah. So you said the consumers want the, want the chickens out on pasture, but that maybe not be the most economical. How do you have that conversation with them or do you,
Andy Flickinger (30:43):
Well, it's tough when probably a lot of your consumers may not be familiar with how agriculture practices, you know, take place. Um, you know, raising, a chicken on an open pasture looks good in, uh, a brochure, but there are challenges. There's, there's Hawks, there are foxes, there are predators. Um, there's environmental, um, things from especially cold weather where we're from to really hot weather down south. Like that's not necessarily the best environment for a chicken, however, letting it, you know, have the option to go outside. I think that's a great thing. You know, if a chicken wants to go outside on a nice day, that's great. You know, we produce some pretty good organic chicken that performs well. And I think that that fresh air that, you know, that natural environment is helpful.
Scott Sorrell (31:30):
Mm-hmm
Andy Flickinger (31:52):
I haven't seen it personally, but I have heard of, you know, different robotics to be used and it's an old school method, just walking through the barn, getting the chickens up to feed and water more often is beneficial. Um, so I can see if that could be automated for sure. That could be a trend.
Scott Sorrell (32:09):
Yeah, actually what I was hearing was they, they had 'em out on pasture and they were open pins. I think they had roofs on 'em and everything, and it would just gradually move them from spot to spot. So anyway, was that us, I think it was Zach. I'll have, I'll have to look into it and let you know. So Zach, what are your thoughts? What's the next big thing?
Dr. Zach Loman (32:35):
I don't know. I think welfare's a big one. I know a lot of customers that I work with, even ones that haven't traditionally done much with welfare programs have recently, uh, been stepping it up and getting two, three, some, I think one of 'em has, um, three third-party audits that come in of various, uh, welfare programs and standards. So I think that's a big thing coming up, especially, uh, as people pay more attention to it. So chickens are on the news with all the AI. So people are gonna start looking and researching more and as they do that, I think they'll, uh, they'll start looking more at that.
Scott Sorrell (33:12):
Mm-hmm
Dr. TJ Gaydos (33:14):
I, I agree with both of them. I'm gonna take it in a different ent direction though. I think, you know, the Fu one of the future things is going to be more automation. Uh, like Andy was talking about what the robots that are in, in the chicken house. Uh, there's companies is working, with robots that are ablecantentially detect chickens that are not doing as well with machine learning, you know, automation in the processing plant, trying to, uh, reduce some of the labor demands, uh, in the processing plant and the hatchery, these intensive places, I think, as technology improves and, you know, uh, specifically with related to machine learning, I think there are some really interesting things coming up, uh, in the next five or 10 years that that'll make some of these real labor, intensive tasks, uh, easier.
Scott Sorrell (34:07):
Hmm. What about genomics and gene splicing, those kinds of things. Uh, do we see that plan a role much in the future?
Dr. TJ Gaydos (34:17):
Uh, in the chickens? I don't see any, uh, GMO chicken anywhere on the horizon.
Scott Sorrell (34:23):
Okay, Zach?
Dr. Zach Loman (34:28):
Yeah, I don't think, uh, I don't think people would be too excited about that if they don't even like us feeding, uh, GMO grains to 'em, I don't think they would be super, uh, super enthusiastic about actually having GMO chickens.
Scott Sorrell (34:40):
Yeah. Just kind of wondering if there were things that we could do, to make them less, uh, or more resistant to things like Coxid OSIS and those kinds of things, um, through maybe not through manipulation, but just through, uh, genomic selection.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (34:56):
Yeah. I mean, they're, they're constantly, the genetics companies are constantly selecting for better and better chickens on the genetic side. And they're looking at, uh, resistance to disease tied to performance and, and all their, and all these different traits when they're selecting the next generation of chickens. Some really smart people are working on that.
Scott Sorrell (35:20):
Hmm.
Dr. Zach Loman (35:21):
Yeah. I know back in, in college we had lines that were selected for susceptibility and resistance to different, uh, different viruses or bacteria.
Scott Sorrell (35:32):
Well, then that's the last call. Um, what I'd like to do is have you guys leave the audience with, uh, two, two key takeaways from today's conversation and we'll start with Zach.
Dr. Zach Loman (35:45):
So I think, uh, especially with all the AI going around that, uh, biosecurity is, uh, definitely important, especially, uh, during the winter months or until it's warmer. Uh, so everybody needs to pay attention to that. And, uh, also that gut health plays, uh, an important role in the bird and the overall health of it
Scott Sorrell (36:06):
Very well. Andy, what can you tell us from a practical perspective?
Andy Flickinger (36:11):
Sure. I, I think there's always gonna be challenges, um, in raising livestock, you know, whether that be poultry, beef, hogs, whatever, um, managing that appropriately through husbandry and, you know, modern science too, and technology, I think that is how, how things are gonna move forward. And there's a lot on the horizon coming up. Um, but back to basics is sometimes the best way, to proceed.
Scott Sorrell (36:38):
Yeah. I like that back to basics. TJ will give you the final word.
Dr. TJ Gaydos (36:44):
I'm optimistic about the future of the Poul industry. I think it's, an industry that's filled with really great people that have the, uh, noble goal of feeding, trying to feed the population with wholesome, uh, and, uh, well-raised poultry, uh, with an attention to animal welfare. Uh, I think that the future is bright for the business and, and, um, very fortunate to be a part of it.
Scott Sorrell (37:11):
Yeah, well said, well said, TJ, Andy, Zach, thank you for, uh, joining us here at the pub table once again, and sharing your insights, your experience, and your views on the future as always a big thank you to our loyal listeners for coming back once again, to hear about the poultry industry and how it's evolving to meet the challenges, um, for feeding a growing global population, we hope to see you next time here. It's a real science exchange, where it's always a happy hour and you're always among friends.
Speaker 5 (37:39):
We'd love to hear your comments or ideas for topics and guests. So please reach out via email to anh.marketing@balchem.com with any suggestions, and we'll work hard to add them to the schedule. Don't forget to leave a five-star rating on your way out. You can request your real science exchange. T-shirt in just a few easy steps, just like, or subscribe to the real science exchange and send us a screenshot along with your address and t-shirt size to anh.marketing@balchem.com. The real science lecture series of webinars continues with ruminant-focused topics on the first Tuesday of every month. Monogastric-focused topics on the second Tuesday of each month and quarterly topics for the companion animal segment visit bache.com/real science to see the latest schedule and to register for upcoming webinars.